Author Interview: Irene Latham

Irene Latham - Highlights FoundationHere we go with another OPB Author Interview! Today we’re spotlighting Irene Latham, whose well-​wrought picture books keep winning hearts (and awards). I had the joy of editing The Museum on the Moon: The Curious Objects on the Lunar Surface, and I can confirm: Irene’s writing ability shines.

You may know her for Can I Touch Your Hair? (with Charles Waters), the Caldecott Honor book The Cat Man of Aleppo (with Karim Shamsi-​Basha), the kindness-​forward Be a Bridge (with Charles Waters), and her anthologies like The Mistakes That Made Us. Whether she’s writing persona poems, curating other poets’ voices, or sneaking science into verse, Irene’s work invites kids to look closely, feel deeply, and live language out loud.

Let’s learn more about her and her work right now!


RVC: When did you realize you were a poet?
IL: Family legend says I’ve been writing poems since I could wield a crayon—love poems, for my mother. But I am a shy person by nature and didn’t share my work with others or pursue publication until I was in my late twenties.

Writer's Digest Magazine September/October 2024 Cover RevealRVC: What kind of training do you have that supports that writing interest?
IL: I’m self-​taught. Each day I’m learning to be a poet through reading poems, of course, and also consuming craft books, podcasts, and articles. I spend part of each day in nature (we live on a lake), and I have attended many a conference and poetry reading. My first stop once I decided to try and get my work published was to join my state’s poetry society. Also, for decades now, my sister has gifted me a subscription to Writer’s Digest magazine (where I have seen lots of your articles, Ryan!).

RVC: Aw, shucks. Thanks!
IL: Much of my writing education has come from those pages!

Leaving Gee's Bend: A NovelRVC: What’s the story behind the first picture book you wrote and published?
IL: I started in the children’s market as a middle grade novelist with Leaving Gee’s Bend (Penguin, 2010). I still love writing novels, but before anything else, I am a poet. So I started sending picture book poetry collection manuscripts to my agent Rosemary Stimola, and together we worked up a list of editors who might be interested. Several manuscripts got rounds of rejections before I wrote Dear Wandering Wildebeest: And Other Poems from the Water Hole. Carol Hinz at Lerner acquired that book, and it was published with illustrations by Anna Wadham in 2014. Carol and I have worked together many times since then! The book received some starred reviews and awards, which was super encouraging. It, along with a companion title When the Sun Shines on Antarctica: And Other Poems About the Frozen Continent (Lerner, 2016) will be released in paperback in 2026.

RVC: The biggest lesson that experience taught you?
IL: Dear Wandering Wildebeest features poems with nonfiction text boxes. I learned pretty quickly that the text boxes are not simply “extra” information. These two pieces—the poem and the text box—should work in tandem. It’s important to include information in the text box that readers may need to decode the poem, and/​or information that anticipates a question a reader may have after reading the poem. And keep it SHORT.

RVC: This is GREAT advice.
IL: In some ways, the text boxes are like prose poems, leaning heavily on poetic elements of economy and precision of language.

RVC: Love that, thanks. Now let’s jump ahead to the book we worked on together—The Museum on the Moon. When you realized “hey, there’s a whole museum’s worth of artifacts on the Moon,” what clicked first—the book concept or a specific poem?
IL: I was a “space” kid who followed the NASA program, and later my oldest son had a childhood obsession with space travel. We also live near the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Alabama. So I had been collecting moon facts for many years. One day, when reviewing my file of facts (I keep all sorts of files of potential book ideas that often arise from my general obsessions, and add to them over time.), I noticed quite a few things had been left on the moon. I jumped on the internet and found even MORE things! Given the number and variety of items, the history and science connections, and the innate kid appeal, I thought, hmm, this could be fun…and I started writing!

RVC: Craft nuts-​and-​bolts question here. Museum pairs poems with tight prose sidebars. How did you balance music with accuracy?
IL: It’s important to me that a poem be a poem. There should be a surprising image or word choice, some musicality, and it shouldn’t be just a recitation of clunky facts. There are myriad of other factual space books available to readers, so I felt my job was to really focus, to “explode the moment.” Which meant being ruthless when cutting and paring both the poems and text boxes. (Confession: there’s one poem in the collection that still feels a bit clunky to me, and every time I read it, I wish I’d spent a little more time unleashing its music!)

RVC: Dear blog readers, that last comment is something all book creators feel at one time or another. It’s okay–truly. You do your best and move on to next projects. Trust me on this. Now, let’s dig back into the book. It features a variety of poetry forms. What was the process for determining which poem formats got used in the book, and for which topics?
IL: The “matching” of subject matter to poetry form is an intuitive process. Mostly it just takes time and trust, allowing oneself to sit with it, to experiment, and allow the answer to arise on the page. The opening poem, “Welcome Earthlings!” is a triolet, an 8‑line form which features one line that repeats 3 times, and a second line that repeats 2 times. This repetition felt “right” to me because the moon also repeats, returning each night…and that became the focus of the poem, how even though you may see the moon every night, you don’t know everything about the moon. It has secrets, and now it’s here to share those secrets. It felt like a perfect marriage of form and content.

RVC: Agree! What’s your favorite spread to see illustrated by Myriam Wares, and why that one?
IL: I loved seeing Myriam’s rendering of the closing poem “This Poem is an Outpost.” We don’t know yet what a habitat on the Moon will actually look like, so I was super curious to get a glimpse into Myriam’s imagination. Her moon habitat is so inviting—who wouldn’t want to stay there before cruising out to Mars?

RVC: What’s one object on the Moon that surprised even you once you researched it?
IL: It surprised me to learn that Charles Duke (Apollo 16) left a photograph of his family on the moon. There’s something so tender and human about that—it was his way of making his loved ones part of the experience. Beautiful! (Though the photo is likely faded beyond recognition at this point.)

RVC: If UNESCO-​style protections ever extended to lunar sites, which locations belong at the top of your “heritage” list?
IL: The first footprints, number one. Probably my number two would be the lunar rover that holds the one book on the Moon—a red Bible. Truly, I could argue for them all! Perhaps there really does need to be a museum on the Moon?!

RVC: Let’s talk about collaboration. You and Charles Waters have built a true creative partnership. What’s his writing/​collaborating superpower?
IL: For fun, Charles and I named ourselves the I & C Construction Co.: Building Books One Word at a Time Since 2015.

RVC: HAH. Love it.
IL: We are friends first, and collaborators second, and we’ve been super fortunate to work on a variety of projects. Our current focus is on co-​curating poetry anthologies for children. Charles has multiple superpowers, but one that has really impacted me is how good he is at acknowledging all the others who help make a book. Our presentations always include slides of folks who helped along the way: from childhood teachers, to librarians who aided our research, to editors and book designers…Charles is a great connector, and he makes it his business to really “see” people.

RVC: How does your collaborative process work? And how/​when/​where/​why do the book ideas emerge?
IL: Each project has been different, and our process continues to evolve. I’m mostly the idea person, but our next book, a poetry anthology titled For the Win: Poems Celebrating Phenomenal Athletes (Lerner, March 3,  2026) evolved out of an idea Charles had many years ago to do a sports anthology. I’m not a sports person, but when he came to me the idea, I pondered it for a while and eventually suggested we focus not on biography, but on moments in each athlete’s life, from introduction to the sport, training, setbacks, achievements, and also what happens after the great achievement. Such inspiring subject matter, whether one likes sports or not!

RVC: IT sounds terrific.
IL: In terms of our day-​to-​day work together, we currently love Google Docs, because we can both be working inside a document simultaneously. Sometimes we have these marathon phone calls where we’re talking through things and also making corrections in the document. Other times we work independently, and take turns responding or adding material. Some things we address through texting. We divvy tasks as best we can, allowing each of us to do the things we want to do, are best at, or feel called to do. I trust Charles, and he trusts me. Somehow it all works out!

RVC: In Be a Bridge, you distilled big, bridge-​building ideas for very young readers. What did “every word counts” look like in revision?
IL: Be a Bridge was a tough one! It emerged out of our efforts to bring the subject matter of Can I Touch Your Hair? Poems of Race, Mistakes, and Friendship to a younger audience. Carol Hinz rejected several of our manuscripts before we finally got to Bridge, so we’d already been revising and revising…There’s a didacticism inherent in the premise—I mean, the title itself is instructive!—and we wanted to “soften” that, but we were also hemmed in by these rhyming couplets. Taking out a single word seemed to unravel the whole thing! And then, after the book was illustrated, a sensitivity reader found some issues that needed further revising. It’s all a bit of a blur in my memory, but what makes it all worthwhile is hearing from educators and families how meaningful the book has been to them. A LOT of work goes into a picture book, that’s for sure!

RVC: The Mistakes That Made Us anthology invited poets to get autobiographical. What editorial promise did you and Charles make to contributors to help them go brave?
IL: We asked each poet to share a mistake from their own lives, write a poem about it, and then craft a nonfiction text box sharing how the mistake impacted their lives—what did they learn from it? Charles and I shared our own responses to the prompt, and we leaned into what impact this kind of vulnerability may have on our child readers. Our goal was to inspire and normalize mistake-​making. It’s just part of life! Not surprisingly given the generosity of poets, our contributors really came through, from Allan Wolf sharing how embarrassing it was to score a soccer goal for the wrong team to Naomi Shihab Nye sharing an incident from First Grade involving a fellow student taking too long at the pencil sharpener, a pencil, and bloodshed! As editors, our job was to stay out of the way of this truth-​telling as much as possible, stepping in only to help clarify or to eliminate unnecessary distractions on the page.

RVC: Speaking of collaborations, how do you handle art notes?
IL: I use them as sparingly as possible. One of my most favorite things about creating picture books is seeing what magic the illustrator conjures, so I want to give a wide berth! However, I have worked on a few historical books, both fiction and nonfiction, and it’s my responsibility to provide art notes, which can be links to historic photos or general research—anything that will help ensure our book will reflect the story’s time, place, people, and culture accurately.

RVC: This Poem Is a Nest is such a fine idea—turning one long poem into a ton of “nestlings.” What moment told you this wasn’t just a poem experiment but a full book?
IL: Of all my books, This Poem Is a Nest is probably the most joyful creative experience I’ve had. I was fortunate to work with Rebecca Davis (WordSong), and she acquired it when I’d only written about 30 nestlings. She believe in the book and invited me to have fun with it, so I did! Neither of us could have anticipated I would have had 161 poems worth of fun. As a creator, I’m so grateful to have been given this kind of freedom.

RVC: What’s one simple way families or classrooms can try their own found poems at home?
IL: You can find poems in the mail that arrives in your mailbox! Or on your bookshelf or magazine rack. Or you can download a pack of free poems from my website designed for just this purpose:

RVC: Let’s talk persona poems. What’s your checklist for writing ethically and vividly in another voice—especially for picture-​book readers?
IL: Do your research, of course. And not just about the person/​animal/​object, but also about the place and time where/​when the person/​animal lives or lived. Imagination is the building block of empathy, so really, all persona work is an exercise in empathy. To make these (or any type poem) more vivid, aim to include not only the sense of sight, but other senses as well. I have a new poetry collection coming from Astra/​WordSong in 2026 called Come In! Come In! Wordspinners to Welcome You Home, and the very last revision pass I did was for the sense of smell. At last gasp, I realized smell was underrepresented in the collection, so I made it my aim to bring in some more scents.

RVC: I’ve read that you’re a cellist. Has learning an instrument changed your line breaks or sound play on the page?
IL: That’s a great question. Playing the cello influences my writing in myriad ways! A musical phrase is not unlike a poetic one, and just as silence is a placeholder for emotion in music, white space serves the same purpose in poetry. More importantly, I’ve learned to appreciate the process of music-​making or poetry-​making, to focus on creating a connection with my audience rather than impressing anyone. Music, and poetry, is a place for me to just be me.

RVC: What can you tell us about the importance of community in a writer’s life?
IL: Truly this is a business of relationships. I love surrounding myself with book/​poetry people, people who share the impulse to use language and stories to attempt to discover the world and share ourselves on the page. I’ve learned community isn’t about numbers—so you can stop obsessing about growing your list of followers on social media! Community is about walking this world with kindness and openness and surrounding yourself with people who support what you’re doing, lift you up, and listen to your dreams and disappointments. This can be as simple as one other person, or two. The most important thing is to be authentic, and to be the kind of person who invites others to be authentic, too.

RVC: What’s one museum (on Earth!) you’d love to partner with for a poetry program, and what you do there?
IL: Ooh, I can’t think of a museum I wouldn’t want to partner with! I love museums—the big, flashy ones and the labor-​of-​love, local ones. Art, history, science…every trip I take includes a visit to one or more of these type of museums.

Also, since 2015, I’ve created a public art project on my blog called ArtSpeak!, in which I post an ekphrastic poem (poem inspired by art) to my blog. I love and have written on such a wide variety of art—you can find hundreds of these free poems on my website, and I am still just as in love with the project as I was ten years ago. Once, long ago, I did partner with Birmingham artist Liz Reed, and we mounted two “Poetry & Paint” shows in which she created art after I wrote, and I wrote poems after she painted. I’d love to do that again.

RVC: Last question for this part of the interview. What’s next in your picture-​book/​poetry world that you can tease?
IL: I have three picture books releasing in 2026, and two of them are poetry. the (third) poetry anthology I’ve co-​curated with Charles Waters, For the Win: Poems Celebrating Phenomenal Athlete (Lerner); a narrative picture book titled A Good Morning for Giddo (Penguin Random House), I wrote with my friend Dahlia Hamza Constantine, featuring a little girl and her giddo (grandfather) exploring Egyptian arts and culture at the Cairo market; and a solo collection of 66 poems called Come In! Come In! Wordspinners to Welcome You Home (Astra Publishing). Imagine a Richard Scarry book, but instead of just words, readers get short poems.

RVC: Okay, Irene. It’s time for the SPEED ROUND! Quick questions and fast answers please. Ready?
IL: Let’s go!

RVC: If you could only have one app on your phone…
IL: Music tuning app.

RVC: Pick one: personal chef, house cleaner, or masseuse?
IL: Personal chef.

RVC: What outdated slang do you use the most?
IL: Is “Awesome” considered outdated? I say that and “Excellent” fairly often. As a Southerner, I also enjoy words like “yonder,” “reckon and “piddle, ” and I use “y’all” and “fixin’ to” pretty regularly—but those words feel timeless to me!

RVC: First line that pops into your head when someone says “write a moon haiku—go!”
IL: The moon makes music

RVC: A poet every picture-​book writer should read.
IL: Valerie Worth.

RVC: One word you want kids to feel after reading your picture books.
IL: Loved.

RVC: Thanks so much, Irene!

Industry Insider Interviews: Tips, Advice, and More from 18 Editors & Agents

Instead of having a regular one-​subject interview, I’m going to share 18 interesting, surprising, and/​or useful things said by literary agents or editor in interviews I’ve read this past year. For those of you who care about such things, none of these interviews were at OPB. But maybe down the road I’ll do some a roundup post or two that’s only from OPB, kind of an OPB Greatest Hits! Does that sound like a good idea to you?

I’ll see you back here next week for the final OPB picture book review of 2023.


Anjanette Barr, Dunham Literary

from PBS Spotlight

I always ask myself whether this is something children actually WANT to read about. If you have a great story idea, but it’s on a topic the typical 4–8‑year-old crowd doesn’t care about, then you may need to choose a different format for your book. It’s easy to forget what that age group is interested in if you aren’t spending a lot of time with them, and this is often a glaring problem in manuscripts from new picture book authors. Remember that even though we want adults to enjoy reading our books aloud, it’s always the kids that matter most.


Sheila Barry, Kids Can Press

from cynsations

The hardest part of my job is having to say “no” so many times in a day or week. We turn down far more manuscripts than we publish (we probably reject 100 manuscripts for every one we accept), and I write more rejection letters than I can count.

Many of the projects we turn down are perfectly publishable, but they just aren’t exactly right at this particular moment for Kids Can Press, and it can be hard to keep finding ways to say: “We like your work, but we don’t like it quite enough to contract.” I’m almost always impressed by the graciousness of the people I turn down. But I still don’t enjoy doing it.


Savannah Brooks, kt literary

from Literary Rambles

I’m open [to self-​published or indie authors] so long as the project they’re querying hasn’t already been published. Those I won’t take on because the project really needs to be an Indie bestseller in order for editors to consider it. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter to me unless those projects are problematic/​poorly written. My general advice is don’t try to use self-​publishing as a way to launch yourself into traditional publishing. It backfires more often than it works.


Julia Churchill, AM Heath

from Words & Pictures

Every author is different, every book is different and every campaign is different. Publishers bring expertise, creativity and investment to the marketing of a book and an author. I will look through each campaign and ask questions. If I think it looks basic, I’ll ask for more. If I think they should be using the author more, I’ll ask why they aren’t. If the author and I have any other ideas ourselves, we will bring them to the publisher and talk about how we can make them work. If I see something that has fallen flat on one campaign with another publisher, then I will share my experience and ask why that happened, and if maybe we should re-​route the budget into a different area, or if they still think it’s worthwhile. I ask questions, I make suggestions, I voice my concerns.

What I want for every author is the premium big-​budget campaign, the diamond standard, but very few get that. You can imagine marketing and PR campaigns to be on a sliding scale. Some campaigns are on the more basic end of the scale. If that’s where your author is in this moment, it’s important to know that, so you can deal with it. I can brainstorm with the author what they can do under their own steam, dovetailing with publisher’s efforts, and also ask the publisher to bring in their expertise and some budget in order to help support the author. Everyone wants the book to be successful.

Not all authors want to be in a room presenting to a hundred people, they want to sit in their shed and write – and why shouldn’t they? Some authors do — and love being on panels or at festivals – it’s about knowing the author, and building the campaign around them and the book.


Mary Cummings, Great River Literary

from PBS Spotlight

If I’m intrigued, I send insights about areas to revise. I don’t want to hear back in, like, two hours because I don’t believe the writer will have really pondered and had opportunity to decide whether the revisions seem like a direction that feels right. But I also want to hear back in some reasonable amount of time (a few months would be really long for a picture book, unless my thoughts for revision would have major impact on illustrations for an author/​illustrator).


Adria Goetz, kt literary

from Johnell Dewitt

I particularly love what I call “historical footnote” picture books, that build a story around lesser known bits from history. I’m also looking for picture books that capture ordinary or natural moments that feel like they’re magical—moments like capturing fireflies, bread dough rising, watching a bird murmuration, the Northern Lights, planting a seed and having it grow into a living plant, and so on. We’re surrounded by ordinary magic, and I want to celebrate it! I’m also particularly looking for picture books that explore something peculiar that happens in nature.


Elizabeth Harding, Curtis Brown, Ltd.

from liveabout dotcom

One interesting thing is that independent booksellers have been compelled to be so much more nimble and creative to stay competitive and so many of them have gotten really good at selling picture books and middle-​grade books.

There would sometimes be a situation when I’d hear that Barnes & Noble “passed” on an author’s book and it used to be devastating—devastating. I would have an inconsolable author and have nothing to really to be able to tell him or her. That’s become less and less the case.

Of course, it’s great if the book is at Barnes & Noble, but it doesn’t need to be there. If they pass —while it’s not ideal—between school, library, and the indies, now we’re able to say, “That’s OK. There are other ways to sell the book.”


Susan Hawk, Upstart Crow Literary

from Writer’s Digest

Keeping texts concise is key – take a look at newly published picture books to see approximately how long they are. Editors aren’t looking for a lengthy text. I often receive rhyming picture books and these can also be a tough sell. Ask yourself if your story must rhyme; sometimes it can open up possibilities if you aren’t bound to a rhyme scheme.

I also avoid texts that teach a lesson. I find that a story that’s in service of a lesson can obscure the star of the story – the characters I want to fall in love with.


Carol Hinz, Millbrook/​Carolrhoda Books

from Picture Book Builders

I regularly see picture book biography texts that are well done but just don’t completely grab me. A common problem with these is pacing. Everything in the subject’s life is given equal weight, so the highs don’t feel all that high nor do the lows feel all that low.

In expository picture books, giving each scene its own spread may still apply, but depending on the approach the author uses, the pagination may be pre-​determined by the structure of the text.

Whether a book’s text is narrative or expository, I firmly believe that a page break has to mean something. The turn of a page should reveal something interesting, different, or new. And when I’m reading picture book submissions, I am looking for a reason for readers to keep on turning the pages.


Christa Heschke, McIntosh and Otis

from Justin Colon Books

Communication is key!!! It’s so important to me that my clients feel comfortable talking to me about any concerns they have throughout the process. I am always here! Most authors will feel a range of emotions throughout the submission process and beyond. Are you feeling disheartened? Would you like to talk strategy? Do you have editors you’d like me to submit to? Are you confused about contract language or what something means? I am always open to suggestions as well. It’s a partnership! Every author is different as far as how often they want to communicate and in what way (phone, email, etc.) and how involved they want to be in particular aspects of the process. So, I always like to be as clear on those details as possible. I want everyone I work with to be happy, know that I have their back, and be comfortable talking through things with me.

It’s also important to understand what each author’s goals are career-​wise and beyond so I can do my best to meet them.


Allyn Johnston, Beech Lane Books

from Picture Book Builders

A picture book is more than anything else a piece of theater, with pictures and words unfolding together as the pages turn and turn and turn all the way to that most important and satisfying one—the final turn from pages 30–31 to page 32.

A picture book is not a static piece of double-​spaced writing on several sheets of 8½ x 11 paper. It’s also not a chunk of writing that sounds like part of a young middle-​grade novel. The text of a picture book is more like poetry than prose. It needs rhythm and succinctness and not a bunch of description and dialog. To steal from Mem, it needs “perfect words in perfect places.” And not too many of them.

If you are a writer but not an illustrator, you of course must leave room for the artist to tell the picture story. But you also must let go of the notion that it is in any way your job to control what happens in the pictures. (No art notes! None. You may think I’m joking! But I’m not.) Your job is to write the best story you can possibly write, one that is so deliciously gorgeous and unexpected and fun in the way it unfolds, and in its emotional power, that no one who reads it can get it out of their heads.

As author/​illustrator Marla Frazee has said so beautifully, “It’s the text and the art that are collaborating in a picture book.” It’s words and pictures together that make the whole. Trust each of them to tell its part.


Naomi Kirsten, Chronicle Books

from Children’s Illustrators

It depends on the project since I work on a variety of formats, from original picture books to novelty books, board books, puzzles, and games. Regardless of the project, though, I typically seek out a style that can be best described as eye-​catching, soulful, and enduring. I also gravitate toward illustration styles that resonate with readers all over the world. I’m committed to reaching all readers, regardless of geography, so an illustration style often needs to have universal appeal.

Another quality that I look for is flexibility. It’s great to see a signature approach or aesthetic in a portfolio, but knowing that an illustrator is willing to step outside of their comfort zone to meet the needs of a potential project is ideal.

Finally, what typically sets an illustrator apart for me is their visual voice: That often comes through in a strong sense of color and line. If an illustrator is comfortable working in a limited palette, I like to see variations on that sensibility. I tend to gravitate toward illustrators who have a style that appeals to children all while speaking to an adult’s sense of artfulness. Since adults are the ones buying books for kids, they are always part of the equation for me—adults are also the ones who will likely be reading the picture book again (and again) to the youngest of readers, so it’s important to have a kid-​friendly style that adults can appreciate, too.


Emma Ledbetter, Abrams

from cynsations

Three hundred and fifty words is definitely on the short end of the picture books we publish! Word counts can vary greatly depending on things like the age group they’re targeting, and whether they’re fiction or nonfiction.

But yes, in general, there has been a trend towards brevity in recent years. I see this not as brevity for brevity’s sake, but because often, a manuscript reads as “too long” because it would simply be a stronger story if it were shorter.

When I edit a picture book text, sometimes I’ll encourage an author to condense when I find that there’s excessive description; too many different plotlines going on at once; or too much information incorporated (this can be a particular issue with nonfiction).

Every word is important in a picture book, where space is precious and limited—so every story needs focus and intent.


Steven Malk, Writers House

from Publisher’s Weekly

The most exciting thing for me has always been reading a voice I’ve never read before, coming across a perspective, point of view, or experience that’s different and new. The advice I always give is just to communicate what it is that makes you unique.

And there’s the really basic stuff of just being professional. You want to come across as really serious about what you’re doing. You don’’ want to come across as someone who’s just dabbling or who doesn’t take the business particularly seriously as a potential career. It is a career. You should demonstrate that, just like with any job.

***

I love coming across a voice I haven’t read before. I love books that open windows into a wide range of experiences. Not many people know it, but I’m a huge fan of mysteries and read them in my spare time whenever I can. I’d love to find a great mystery, especially a mystery with real emotional stakes and a setting we haven’t seen before. I’ve always been a big fan of flawed or unreliable narrators as protagonists. I love music, history, and sports, so I’m always receptive to books that touch on those subjects as well.


Wendy McClure, Albert Whitman & Co

from nancychurnin.com

In terms of process, it’s [writing a picture book] sort of a cross between composing a poem and writing a short essay. For many years I did a column for BUST magazine, and my word count was around 800 words, and once I got used to that limit, it sort of changed the way I wrote those pieces: I’d know, after a couple of paragraphs, whether my pacing and structure was tight enough to work with that word count. If it wasn’t, I’d start over. I find now that I do the same thing with picture books, because working with those texts as an editor has given me a feel for that length. It’s funny, because I still believe in writing first drafts without worrying about word count, and that sometimes you need too much story at first to have enough in the end. But it’s also useful to understand the sense of scale a picture book has. It’s like figuring out what size paintbrush you need. As an editor of picture books, I’m always in that world to some extent! But it’s a little different when it’s your own manuscript. I liked letting my editor (Christina Pulles) make decisions about page breaks and jacket copy, and I was able to sit back more and watch the magic happen, which was fun.


Holly McGhee, Pippin Properties, Inc.

from Cynsations

I often find that our very most successful clients need a gatekeeper—there can come a point when there’s nobody left who will tell an author to “shelve it” or that the author “can do better.” We are the keepers of the castle, the ones you can trust to tell you the truth about the work as we see it.


Maria Modugno, Random House Studio

from Robsanders.com

If I knew the formula for making a finished book irresistible, I would be a millionaire. Even after years of experience, I find it hard to anticipate which titles will really take off. I always pause when I have the first bound book in my hands and celebrate that achievement. What the market thinks is out of our control. Nevertheless, most bookstores use the top seasonal holidays as a hook for a display. Back to school is another important season for picture books. It goes without saying, that the publisher has priced the book competitively and the trim size is right for the story, i.e. some books are “lap books” that can be spread across the laps of two readers; some illustrations call for vertical size and others for landscape.

***

The overwhelming reason that manuscripts are declined is because they just don’t have that extra spark, something that makes them irresistible. And that quality is the most difficult to define.

There are some things you can check—does the story have a distinctive voice? Does the plot work without relying on coincidence? Does it end with a surprise [such as a] birthday party? How does it sound when you read it aloud, or better yet have someone read it to you. Take care that you are not convincing yourself that it’s a good text.

***

I’m a saver of scraps. I have a jar of mismatched buttons that I keep on hand just in case. Don’t ever give your manuscript a funeral. Set it aside for a while first underlining the parts you love the best.

Something that isn’t working completely will still have a number of gems you can use somewhere else.


Brooke Vitale, freelance editor

from Brookevitale.com

So what does it mean to have a book for kids aged 3–7? It means that you need to focus on things these children can understand and can relate to. Keep in mind what a young kids’ experience with the world is and what is interesting to them. A four-​year-​old isn’t going to want to read a book about a ten-​year-​old. They can’t relate to what that character is going through and probably won’t understand the book. Young children are still learning how the world works and wont usually comprehend more complex emotional stories. That’s why most picture books tend to be simplified. A book about bullying, for example, would likely focus on a protagonist stepping up to stop the bullying, not the actual physical and emotional abuse the bullied child experiences.

But more than being something they can understand, books for kids this age need to be compelling. They need to keep a child engaged and actively hold their interest.

If you’ve ever read to a kid, you know that they have notoriously short attention spans. If you don’t have a story that keeps their attention, they’re not going to want to read your book. Find a way to engage them, and keep them engaged.

Editor Interview: Carol Hinz (Millbrook Press & Lerner Publishing)

OPB readers, friends, and fans, what better way to wrap up 2019 than getting to know Carol Hinz, Editorial Director of Millbrook Press and Carolrhoda Books at Lerner Publishing Group? Her Twitter bio gives a lot of extra insight into who she is and what she’s about: “Also knitter, baker, ballerina, and wrangler of two small humans.” Talk about some pithy bio data, right?

Since OPB is all about underpromising and overdelivering, here are three more Carol Facts to enjoy.

  1. First book publishing job was an internship at Graywolf Press.
  2. Favorite color? Blue (in all shades and hues).
  3. Most unusual airplane carry-​on item? She brought her figure skates to the NCTE conference in Baltimore at the end of November so she could skate at the rink that’s along the harbor. Carol says, “It was totally worth the effort—and all the funny looks I got when people at the conference found out I’d done it!”

With that, let’s get to the Qs and As!


RVC: You ran into a pre-​career crossroads in high school—science and English. We know which choice you made (obviously!), but what appealed to you so much about science?

CH: I’ve always been a curious person, and I think my science classes and my English classes fed my curiosity in different ways. With science, I loved finding out more about the ways the world—and the universe—works, and at least at the high school level, I liked that the questions I was grappling with had definitive answers. There’s something comforting about being able to follow a procedure or a certain line of thinking and come up with a consistent result.

RVC: An example of that scientific curiosity appears in the range of books you’ve edited, like The Vast Wonder of the World: Biologist Ernest Everett Just and If You Were the Moon, or Dazzle Ships: World War I and the Art of Confusion and One Plastic Bag: Isatou Ceesay and the Recycling Women of the Gambia. What’s an unexpected topic or two you’d love to deal with via a book at some point?

CH: I like to be surprised by books—whether that surprise comes from encountering a topic I was previously unfamiliar with or from encountering an innovative presentation of a familiar topic. And I think many reviewers, educators, parents, and kids (especially kids!) enjoy being surprised as well.

I’m not someone who has a running list of super specific topics I’m looking for, but here are some things that have been on my mind lately:

  • Books that incorporate antiracist concepts and work toward dismantling white supremacy in ways that are engaging and meaningful for children (and adults).
  • Books that present science topics other than biology. Kids in the typical picture book age range often love animals, but I’d love to see some innovative, kid-​friendly approaches to other areas, including technology, mathematics, and engineering.
  • This last one isn’t a specific topic, but I’m looking for BIPOC authors and authors from other marginalized backgrounds to write about all manner of topics. Particularly in nonfiction, the vast majority of authors are white, and I would love to see a greater diversity of voices and perspectives represented.

RVC: I share that BIPOC wish, as well, and I’m doing what I can here with my cadre of students at Ringling College of Art and Design’s Creative Writing program. (Watch for their manuscripts in about three years!)

But let’s talk directly about where you work. One of the things I like about Lerner is that they take the time to carefully brand their products via imprints. I think of Millbrook as being curriculum + engagement. With Carolrhoda, it’s more imagination + inspiration. 

CH: Yes, that’s a great way of putting it! I typically say that for Millbrook, I’m looking for books that present curricular concepts in playful or unusual ways. And in Carolrhoda, I’m looking for quirky humor and books that give children an opportunity to see the world (or themselves) in new ways.

RVC: One of the things I admire about your work as an editor is how you’re not afraid of going right after tough topics, as readers encounter in Can I Touch Your Hair? Poems of Race, Mistakes, and Friendship, and Sachiko: A Nagasaki Bomb Survivor’s Story, to name just two examples. How do you negotiate the balance between what readers NEED and what readers WANT? And while we’re at it, let’s add in the challenge of what parents, teachers, and librarians think, too, right?

CH: Thank you, Ryan. With the books you mention, a couple of key things were not rushing the editorial process and incorporating the feedback of other people—both colleagues at Lerner and expert readers. I don’t think any one person is going to have perfect instincts for how to handle a challenging topic on the first draft or on the first read through a manuscript. But having time to sit with it, to read other, relevant writing on the topic, and to get feedback from fellow editors or consultants is enormously helpful.

Beyond that, we also need to be humble—the authors and I are going to do our best, but all books, especially those that grapple with topics not traditionally covered in children’s books, will still be criticized. Not every reader is going to be looking for the same thing from a book on a given topic, and we have to be okay with that, whether or not we agree with the criticism.

RVC: While Can I Touch Your Hair? has received a lot of critical praise, some readers are uncomfortable with parts of it—most specifically the poem called “The N‑Bomb.” That’s a prime example of what we’re talking about here, isn’t it?

CH: Definitely. I think adults (particularly white adults) don’t give kids enough credit for what they can handle. This often comes out of a desire to protect kids from all the terrible things that are a part of our world. But we need to keep in mind that not all kids receive that protection, and we can’t control when a kid is going to first encounter something biased, racist, or hateful. To those adults who feel uncomfortable, I say: Isn’t it far better for a kid to encounter the N‑word (or some other “difficult” subject matter) for the first time in the pages of the book, when there’s time and space for a kid to think about it and talk with a trusted adult about it, rather than encountering it first in some other way when there might not be opportunity for thought and conversation?

For more, check out a blog post that Irene Latham, Charles Waters, and I wrote about this very topic.

RVC: Thanks for extending our conversation with the link to that informative post. Much appreciated!

Let’s move back into your work as an editor in general by asking a question few editors get asked. How do you measure success?

CH: Ultimately, success is a book reaching a young reader who appreciates it. And I want our books to get into the hands as many of those young readers as possible, which means connecting with the people who put books into kids’ hands—booksellers, educators, librarians, and parents.

RVC: How do you achieve such a thing?

CH: There are different routes to achieving this goal. It could be getting multiple starred reviews, winning one or more awards, getting on state reading lists, having an author who does a lot of school visits and events, or some other combination of things. Success isn’t always the moments we see on social media—and a whole lot of work and revision and doubt and hope go into every single book we make, with the goal of each book finding its own path to readers.

RVC: Since you brought up the idea of writers/​books finding a path to readers … a lot of writers come to OPB to gain insight into how to improve their chances of selling a picture book manuscript, and sometimes that means investigating the submission process itself as much as talking about issues of craft. So, let’s help them out. Plenty of editors encounter phrases and words in cover letters and queries that are an absolute turn off. Got any to warn writers away from using with you?

CH: Ultimately, I’m a lot more interested in the manuscript than I am in the cover letter or query. That said, I’m turned off by bashing an entire category or genre because an author thinks their work is better than all of it, comments that the author’s child/​neighbor/​grandchild loves the story (because I need people who don’t already know and love the author to also love the story), and an obvious lack of knowledge about a certain genre or category (e.g. a 3,000-word picture book).

RVC: Let’s go with one more writer-​friendly question. How has nonfiction changed over the years of your editing career, and what trends/​shifts might we expect in 2020 and beyond?

CH: Oooh, interesting question. There’s definitely more interest in STEM and STEAM topics and less interest in historical topics (unless the book is about a historical “hidden figure” of some sort). Animal life cycle books used to be a nonfiction staple, but I almost never see them anymore unless they have an innovative approach (such as My Awesome Summer by P. Mantis by Paul Meisel.)

The last few years I’ve been thinking a lot about the different categories of nonfiction, as described by Melissa Stewart. For picture books, I’m seeing lots of narrative nonfiction, some really great expository literature, and a small amount of traditional nonfiction. (For more about nonfiction categories, check out Melissa’s blog and read her School Library Journal article on the topic.)

I’m also seeing a lot of interesting approaches to blending nonfiction and fiction. For instance, Flower Talk: How Flowers Use Color to Communicate by Sara Levine, illustrated by Masha D’yans is narrated by a cantankerous cactus, but the information conveyed is all true. I realize books like this can pose a challenge for librarians—where to shelve them?—but I also expect to be seeing more in this vein.

Word counts remain higher than for fiction. With narrative nonfiction, I generally go for 1,000 or fewer words in the main text, though Dazzle Ship: World War I and the Art of Confusion by Chris Barton is about 1,400 words and Let ’Er Buck!: George Fletcher, the People’s Champion by Vaunda Micheaux Nelson is 1,500 words. Expository literature typically has a lower word count, though a book with multiple levels of text (such as those in Jess Keating’s World of Weird Animals series) may go higher.

Including back matter and providing sources has become increasingly essential, and I’m enjoying just what a wide range of elements authors are including in back matter. Different topics will necessarily be served by different back matter.

Incremental but important progress has been made in publishing picture books by and about BIPOC and people from other marginalized backgrounds (and those books being recognized with starred reviewed and awards), and it’s my belief that this is not a trend but rather part of a permanent, ongoing shift.

Overall, I believe it’s a great time to be making nonfiction. There’s so much room for creativity and experimentation in terms of both format and topic, and I am inspired by all the great nonfiction I’m seeing out there!

RVC: A few years back, you (delightfully) interviewed your own kids on the Lerner Books blog. I’d like to wrap up the first part of this interview with variations on three of the questions you asked them. Here we go. 

#1—What do you like best about being a mom who is a children’s book editor? 

CH: I love that what I do in my job has such a meaningful connection with being a parent: my experiences with my kids inform my work and my experiences with making books inform the way I raise my children. I also think that the act of reading picture books aloud is incredibly powerful, and doing so night after night after night can’t help but shape my understanding of how to make a great picture book.

RVC: #2—What’s your favorite picture book to have worked on?

CH: All of them! That’s a valid answer, right? Truly, I love the books we publish and feel so lucky to be able to work with such incredible authors and illustrators.

If I had to pick a picture book that has had particular meaning for both me and my kids this year, I would choose A Map into the World by Kao Kalia Yang, illustrated by Seo Kim. My 6‑year-​old son loves it [OPB Note: Carol was kind enough to provide a snapshot of her and the aforementioned son enjoying that very book!], and we’ve been reading it multiple times a week for months now. Although it’s a book I completely adore, I was surprised to see it have such staying power for him. This blog post shares more of the story behind the book and how it has led to some very meaningful connections for both of my kids.

RVC: #3—How many picture books have you read them in their lives?

CH: Oh, probably a couple thousand.

RVC: That’s a good answer, Carol, but it’s wrong. According to child #2, it’s 5,952. But you were close!

And now, we move on to the SPEED ROUND where the point values are doubled, and the answers will zing as fast as the answers zoom. READY?

CH: You betcha!

RVC: Best place in Minneapolis to get hot dish?

CH: Probably in a church basement or at someone’s home! Instead, I’d like to recommend the fantastic fry bread tacos at the Four Sisters Farmers Market. I went there on a day last fall when illustrator Marlena Myles was signing copies of Thanku: Poems of Gratitude with the Hennepin County library system, and there I discovered that books and fry bread tacos are a great combination! (Though you do need to be careful not to spill on your book…)

RVC: Favorite late-​night reading beverage?

CH: Water.

RVC: Who’d you most like to edit a picture book from? LeBron James, Kim Kardashian, or Ariana Grande? 

CH: Hahaha! Whichever one of them has spent the last 5+ years reading recently published picture books, drafting multiple manuscripts, and working with a critique group as they honed their writing skills—and would respect my editorial input. 😉

RVC: A Lerner picture book that’s totally awesome yet somehow underappreciated?

CH: Love, Agnes: Postcards from an Octopus by Irene Latham, illustrated by Thea Baker. It’s an innovative look at the giant Pacific Octopus life cycle as portrayed via a series of postcards exchanged by Agnes, various other sea creatures, and a boy on land. It’s clever and charming, whether you’re primarily interested in the storyline or in the octopus facts!

RVC: The coolest picture book of 2019 that wasn’t edited by someone named Carol is …

CH: Gah, this is so hard! I’m going to cheat and break this into a few categories.

For fiction, I’d have to say Home in the Woods by Eliza Wheeler. Every aspect is so well done, and the text, the illustrations, and the design work wonderfully together to create a cohesive whole. Both of my kids also love it!

For nonfiction, I’m going to go with The Undefeated by Kwame Alexander, illustrated by Kadir Nelson. When I first saw the book, I thought it was gorgeous but perhaps too sophisticated for a young audience. But when I brought it home and read it to my younger son, he was very engaged. While he and I had previously talked about race in different ways, we’d not talked much about systemic racism and the long history of racial injustice in the United States, and this book opened the door to some really powerful conversations.

For a science-​themed picture book, I’d say Moth: An Evolution Story by Isabel Thomas, illustrated by Daniel Egnéus. I’d been hearing good things about it and finally got it from the library. My 6‑year-​old son  and I both learned a lot! It is such a clear presentation of a complex idea, and the illustrations are fantastic as well.

RVC: Sum up your picture book philosophy in three words.

CH: Make me care.

(By which I mean that you the author start off invested in the story you’re telling or the topic you’re writing about. But your readers may not be invested in the same way, so you need to find a way to make me–and all readers–care about it.)

RVC: Thanks so much, Carol! This was a sincere pleasure.