Category: Agent Interviews

Agent Interview: Tricia Lawrence (Erin Murphy Literary Agency)

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This month’s Industry Insider interview is with Tricia Lawrence, an agent at the Erin Murphy Literary Agency (EMLA). She joined the agency as a social media strategist in 2011 after nearly two decades as a developmental and production-​based copyeditor. Born and raised in Oregon and now living in Seattle, Tricia’s often called the “Pacific Northwest branch” of EMLA.

Let’s get to know Tricia a bit more by playing Eight Truths and One Lie. Ready?

  1. She has watched 500+ hours of BBC America.
  2. After binge-​watching Project Runway, she spent a TON of time draping and fitting a half-​size mannequin.
  3. She has the innate ability to stack books as high as she is tall.
  4. She’s an avid runner.
  5. She likes to collect rocks.
  6. She’s a big Seattle sports fan.
  7. She’s a bonafide piano plunker.
  8. She once shared a blueberry bagel with Beyoncé.
  9. Books she’s authored have been sold off Target endcaps.

Can’t tell which is the lie? The answer will be revealed in the interview…somewhere. And since you likely really want to know that answer, let’s get right to the interview.

RVC: When did you first discover your love for books?

TL: I was about 8 and realized if I slapped down my family’s library card, the librarians had to let me borrow the books. I would clear off a shelf of books at a time, and then read them in about a day, my long legs slung over the arm of our wingback chair. And then I would pester my parents to drive me to the library to get more.

I began to get a reputation at that library …

RVC: How did school foster or get in the way of your future career in the book industry?

TL: I struggled in school, only because I was often daydreaming, but I was alternating between two schools for most of my grade school years. It was my parents’ dream for me to attend a Christian grade school, but they didn’t have the money every year, so I struggled to write a complete sentence in third-​grade PUBLIC school, only because in second-​grade PRIVATE school, our studies hadn’t gotten there yet. These were not the best years of my life. It created a lot of self-​doubt, but I knew I was going to be a writer. And I so in spite of all of this, I reveled in my love for books.

RVC: After college, you spent some time in the writing/​content-​creation side of the medical world. What lessons from those jobs do you use most in your work now as a literary agent?

TL: That no matter how much education you have, it doesn’t mean you can write a story that can keep someone engaged. I edited for a lot of doctors and just like so many have awful handwriting, a lot of them struggled with writing. They were great partners, however, because the best conversations I remember are discussing complex sentences as well as phlebotomy.

RVC: What convinced you to make the move to joining the Erin Murphy Literary Agency (EMLA)?

TL: I’ve LONG been an admirer of Erin Murphy and the kind of agency she has created. She actually turned me down the first time, but I came back a few months later, and voila! Sorta like querying sometimes. One “no” isn’t often the last word.

RVC: I love hearing success stories based in perseverance. Now, what’s the most important things authors should know or understand about effectively using social media to support their careers?

TL: That social media DOES NOT MATTER without the writing. It supports the book, but it doesn’t supersede the book. You only need a massive social media platform if you’re writing nonfiction for the mainstream adult trade market, say, if you’ve got a new approach to phlebotomy or something (ha!), but the story matters the most in children’s literature and teen literature. It’s ALL that matters.

That said, pick the social media tools you enjoy and leave off the rest. If you don’t like Twitter, it will be obvious. If you LOVE TikTok, go with god and have fun.

RVC: Let’s talk about you as an agent. What’s the first picture book you sold?

TL: It was There Was an Old Dragon Who Swallowed a Knight, a magnificent rhymer by the amazing Penny Parker Klostermann. I remember sitting out on the lawn checking my email and then staring up at the trees in our backyard in awe of the power of picture books. I had fallen so hard for Penny’s text and I had sent it to an editor who also loved it. It’s the magic beans of this business. If the author has passion for their work, it will spread and it’s a beautiful thing.

RVC: What are some other books that just grabbed you at the language level like that?

TL: There are so many! From Annie Bailey’s Mud! (2022) to Jill Esbaum’s How to Grow a Dinosaur (2018)–I would need to go on and on and on!

RVC: In terms of your identity as an agent, how would you describe yourself?

TL: Devoted, passionate advocate, and curious.

RVC: Describe your ideal client. 

TL: Self-​aware, honest, and hardworking

RVC: What’s a project or accomplishment that you consider to be the most significant in your career at EMLA?

TL: I think each time I read a manuscript from a client and think “I love this” and then I convince an editor to also love it is the most significant. I know I’m hedging and also being repetitive, but this…this is the magic.

RVC: I know what you mean. What is the most common misconception about a literary agent?

TL: That once you’ve got the agent, you’ve arrived (and for some that may be true). I believe every time we write something, even if it doesn’t garner agent attention or doesn’t win, we’ve arrived. It’s a big balancing act and each writer will arrive to it in their own way, i.e. has their own goals that make them feel they’ve arrived. Hopefully as an agent, I can help them fine-​tune those dreams and reach even farther.

RVC: How do you feel about Art Notes?

TL: I’m feeling pretty good about them. Sometimes they’re just necessary and yet can feel like their own set of rules.

A reminder: if you rely on the art notes to create your story rather than to enlarge and enhance your story, go back through them again and seek out how you might rework anything.

RVC: You seem fairly active with live and virtual events/​communities. What do you get out of participating with #DVpit or attending an SCBWI conference as faculty?

TL: A TON. It’s a place for like-​minded folks to gather. And now, with opportunities opening for more and more stories, I’m hoping we see even more change and openness. Just because I don’t know, doesn’t mean it’s not important. I think gathering together helps us to understand and to learn. Plus, it’s just nice to hang out with folks who are as addicted to stories as I am!

RVC: You also do a lot of work beyond being an agent. Care to talk about some of your own book writing?

TL: I wrote some books back in the late 1990s that were among the first to get picked up by Target. At the time, Target was not doing a lot of book sales, so I got to be the experiment.

RVC: Lucky you!

TL: I remember buying copies for friends and family and my sister announced to the person checking us out that I was the author. The checkout guy made me open each book and point to my name. It was surreal, but really fun. I love that my own clients get to have that experience now. It’s seriously thrilling. I’ve gotten back to my writing during COVID and I’ve learned so much from my clients as to how to be a writer. Courage, refusal to give up, and more courage!

RVC: I see that you’re doing a lot of painting these days and you’ve said that you regret not taking it more seriously earlier.

TL: I started an experiment making art (watercolor and Procreate on the iPad) just to see if I could. I’m not as diligent as I should be, but I still make art every day. I find that it soothes me and opens up a different part of my brain. I give advice to writers all the time about allowing the creativity to flow through other tactile activities: gardening, making art, knitting. I thought it was time to take my own advice and it has become a lovely hobby.

RVC: How has your work as an artist informed your work as a literary agent?

TL: In so many ways. Having a growth mindset means you work at it. So I go from feeling confident and wheeling and dealing for my clients to trying to make art, where I feel inadequate and like a failure. The tension there is so interesting. It’s a daily journey through that tension, but so worth it. From that tension comes amazing growth, centeredness, and courage!

RVC: Brag time. What upcoming projects are you most excited about? 

TL: I’m obsessed with Alice Faye Duncan and Chris Raschka’s Yellow Dog Blues (Eerdmans, 2022) coming in September. Chris took Alice Faye’s text and created a masterpiece of art. He painted on and embroidered burlap for each page.

RVC: WOW!

TL: And Kim Rogers’ debut Just Like Grandma (Heartdrum, January 2023) illustrated by Julie Flett. Absolutely beautiful work. I cannot wait. I also cannot wait for Jill Esbaum’s upcoming Stinkbird Has a Superpower (G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 2023) illustrated by Bob Shea. So excited!

RVC: Tricia, it’s time for the SPEED ROUND. Lightning-​fast questions and even faster answers, please. Are…YOU…READY?

TL: 100 percent!

RVC: What’s something that will always be in fashion, regardless of how much time passes?

TL: Books.

RVC: What movie quote do you use on a regular basis?

TL: “Run mad as often as you choose, but do not faint.”—wrongly used in the 1999 movie they made of Jane Austen’s Mansfield Park, because the original quote is from Austen’s novel, Love and Friendship.

RVC: You’re hosting a literary ice cream social. What three writers—living or dead, real or imagined—would you invite?

TL: Octavia Butler, Mary Magdalene, Carl Sagan.

RVC: What books are on your nightstand?

TL: Oh god. Hundreds of books (but the nightstand doesn’t support them any longer, so they are on a currently reading bookshelf). HAHAHAHAHA.

I have so many. Right now I have 16 novels from the library (mostly murder/​thriller reads, but I’ve been going through this list of debut novels and love being blown away by them all!

RVC: What was the first picture book that gave you a WOW moment?

TL: I Want My Hat Back. I’m a dark soul. This book is brilliant.

RVC: Favorite line from a picture book you repped?

TL:

“Nestled on a garden path

and strewn along the shore.

Scattered on a city block

and on the forest floor …

 

Tucked in sidewalk crevices

and stuck in mucky ground.

Stretching high and scraping sky,

rocks are all around.”

This is from Lisa Varchol Perron and Taylor Perron’s unannounced co-​authored picture book coming in 2024 from Penguin Random House.

RVC: Thanks so much, Tricia! Oh, and by the way, care to reveal which of the biographical nuggets in the introduction is a big stinking whopper of a falsehood?

TL: While I have seen Beyoncé in concert and sang along with everything like the obsessed fan that I am, I unfortunately have never shared a bagel with her. Bey, you want bagels? Call me!

Agent Interview: Jacqui Lipton (Tobias Literary Agency)

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After working as an Associate Agent and intern at several literary agencies, Jacqui Lipton founded Raven Quill Literary Agency in 2019 and, in 2022, the agency merged with The Tobias Literary Agency where Jacqui continues to focus on developing the careers of unique, high quality, engaging, and often underrepresented voices. She represents a little bit of everything from children’s books through the adult market in both fiction and nonfiction.

In addition to holding an MFA in Writing for Children & Young Adults from Vermont College of Fine Arts, Jacqui is a law professor and attorney with American and international experience in commercial and intellectual property law. She writes columns on legal issues for writers for the SCBWI Bulletin, Luna Station Quarterly, Catapult Community Page, and Savvy Authors, and she’s a frequent presenter on these issues around the country. She’s also the author of Law and Authors: A Legal Handbook for Writers (University of California Press, 2020).

Jacqui focuses on representing authors of picture books, novels, novels-​in-​verse, and nonfiction from middle grade through to the adult market.

Now that we’ve got a sense of what Jacqui is bringing to the OPB table, let’s get to the interview!

RVC: Which came first—the interest in writing/​publishing or the interest in law?

JL: I’d have to say I was writing LONG before I was thinking of going to law school. I was always an avid reader from a very young age and started writing bad poetry in elementary school, moved on to short stories in high school, and soon tried short novels and scripts. A major attraction of the law for me involved the narratives relating to legal disputes—different ways the same facts can be perceived and relayed by different parties–and the very human stories the law often deals with.

RVC: Way back when, what were you reading, and what influence did those books have on you?

JL: I started out with mysteries when I was young—I loved books that included puzzles to solve. I still love a good mystery or suspense story. I tend to like relatively fast-​paced stories that contain surprises along the way, but now I also enjoy slower paced, thoughtful literary pieces with beautiful writing craft.

RVC: You’ve got a connection to Australia. Care to explain how you went to university there?

JL: I actually grew up in Australia and moved to the States later in life, so I still have an Aussie accent and did most of my schooling in Australia. I went to the UK for my Ph.D., and also now hold that good old MFA in writing from Vermont College of Fine Arts.

RVC: Since you literally wrote the book on legal issues for writers, let me ask—why do writers need to know about the law? Isn’t it something their agent just handles for them?

JL: Well, to start with, not all writers work with agents or literary lawyers, so it’s worth understanding the basics of the contract you’re entering into! And honestly the main through-​line of the book is that it’s not necessary for authors to know a lot about the law, and that the law should never stand in the way of writing what you want to write because there’s usually a workaround for common legal problems that arise, many of which I discuss in the book.

So, the idea of the book is to explain in simple terms, with accessible pop culture examples, the basics of things like what a copyright is, the key terms authors will see in contracts with agents and with publishers (and the key differences between those contracts) and how defamation, privacy and trademark law can come into play in the writing life. The content of the book is really drawn from lots of questions authors have asked me over the years and my attempts to answer them in simple, accessible terms.

RVC: Simple and accessible sounds wonderful.

JL: There are other books out there that go into, say, publishing contracts in a lot more detail than my book. Mine is really intended as an entry point to give authors a heads up on the key legal issues they might face in their careers, and importantly, which issues can be easily handled without legal help, which may need legal help, and where to go to find effective and hopefully affordable legal help. It also has chapters focusing on self-​publishing where agents/​lawyers are less likely to be consulted. The book won’t make anyone into a lawyer, but hopefully it will give authors comfort about the scary-​seeming questions that often get raised and inaccurately addressed in a a lot of writing groups (online and IRL)!

RVC: I teach Introduction to the Profession of Creative Writing and The Profession of Creative Writing at my college, and something we talk about in those classes that shocks young writers is copyright and IP (intellectual property). They often don’t have any idea of the rights they’re surrendering for free by posting things on social media, for example. 

JL: That was a big reason I wrote the book—just to give authors some accessible and accurate knowledge about things like their intellectual property rights. And posting stuff on social media usually isn’t “giving away” rights in your work, but it may be infringing rights in other people’s work! It’s important to understand the difference between protecting your own rights and respecting other people’s rights—and I hope the book addresses some of those distinctions.

RVC: Gotcha–thanks for clarifying that! Now, you work as a legal consultant for writers and creative artists. What’s the most frequently asked question you get? 

JL: Definitely questions about including other people’s work (e.g. song lyrics, lines of poetry, photographs) in your own work—and the extent to which that infringes copyright. A lot of people think that giving attribution to the original creator avoids a copyright infringement problem and it really doesn’t because copyright isn’t about attribution—it’s about copying. Attributing the original creator is always nice, but it’s not a copyright issue. If the original creator gives you permission to use their work and asks for attribution in return, that’s a contract (it’s a contractual license to use their work with attribution).

The other common question is about defamation—say, someone is writing a memoir and want to know what they can “get away with” writing about real people in their lives without being at risk for a defamation suit. Luckily for authors, defamation is a pretty weak law in the United States as compared with other countries. Truth does tend to be a defense and statements of opinion, rather than fact, are typically not defamatory.

RVC: How did you go from being a lawyer to being a literary agent?

JL: I actually still do a bit of both (or at least a bit of contract consulting here and there). I also mainly teach law rather than practice. I’ve always been more of a teacher than a lawyer, which, I think, is part of the reason I wrote the book. The teacher in me just won’t stop! So, I tend to do a bit of everything but my main focus is a combination of teaching and agenting.

RVC: What’s something most people wouldn’t appreciate about being an agent?

JL: How much paperwork there is in terms of contracts, payments, just day to day emails. I think a lot of people have a kind of glamorous conceptions of agents on the phone doing big deals for books that become instant bestsellers. A lot of it is actually admin work behind a computer. I also think people assume agents make a lot more money than they do, a lot more quickly than they do over the span of a career. An agent only gets a commission on projects they sell, and, even then, it’s usually typically around 15% and most book deals aren’t six-​figure deals. So, you do the math! And bear in mind that unless you own your own agency, that 15% is split between the agent and the agency, so many agents only earn between 7.5 to 12% of the deals they do, depending on their arrangements with their agencies.

RVC: You’re a writer, too. How does your own writing inform your agenting?

JL: I’m not sure that it really does. I tend not to write in areas where I actively agent because I have trouble turning off my editor brain in the genres I work on for clients, which tends to interfere with my ability to write creatively myself in those genres. So, at the moment I write mainly prescriptive nonfiction for adults (the legal issues book and a forthcoming data privacy handbook—Our Data, Ourselves: A Personal Guide to Digital Privacy, coming out this fall with University of California Press). I tend to rep nonfiction more in the kidlit space and more narrative nonfiction than I write. And I don’t really write much in the way of fiction.

Never say never, but once my editor brain is switched on for a particular genre, I find it hard to switch off.

RVC: What made you take the potentially scary dive into launching your own agency?

JL: It was something that felt right at the time because I had trained for a while and I had the legal/​business background to do it. It also enabled me to call the shots and develop the business the way I wanted to develop it—with a wonderful team of agents and clients. I think it paid off in the sense that we gave a lot of newer agents and clients a wonderful start in the business and then, with the recent Tobias merger, we were able to quickly draw on the strengths and synergies between the two agencies to provide clients a deeper level of service and more opportunities more quickly than if we had continued on our own.

RVC: In all your experience with Raven Quill, what surprised you the most?

JL: We did manage to make a lot of deals very quickly, or at least more quickly than I guessed we would, particularly as we had newer agents and a lot of newer clients on deck. We were probably helped a bit by the pandemic because we didn’t have brick and mortar premises to deal with at a time when lots of people were trying to renegotiate leases, and we didn’t have a lot of existing contracts with pub dates being postponed due to school and bookstore closings, supply chain issues, etc. I guess I was also surprised by the amount of faith clients and editors placed in us so quickly and so graciously.

RVC: Let’s talk about picture books specifically. What are some of the picture books you’ve repped that are indicative of your tastes, both as an agent and for your agency?

JL: It’s so weird to think of myself as a picture book agent because it was one area I never specifically trained in, but I did end up selling a number of them. My picture book tastes are pretty eclectic and my list is currently pretty full in that regard so I’m more likely to look at a picture book author who also writes in other segments of the market at the moment.

One of my absolute favorite picture books (coming out in 2023 with Sleeping Bear Press) is Stephanie Gibeault’s Toby Tootles, illustrated by Mary Sullivan, because I was so delighted to actually sell a fart book! But what I love about the book is that it’s really a book about self-​acceptance that uses flatulence in a humorous way to get the message across.

I have to also give a shout out to Tziporah Cohen for two of her picture books, On the Corner of Chocolate Avenue: How Milton Hershey Brought Milk Chocolate to America, illustrated by the amazing Steven Salerno, and coming out this fall with Clarion, and Afikomen, coming out in spring 2023 with Groundwood (illustrated by Yaara Eshet). I love the Hershey bio because it’s about the way Hershey struggled to create a sweet treat accessible to the masses, and not just for the wealthy. And I LOVE Afikomen because it’s a wordless time travel portal fantasy about Passover. Writing the pitch for it was a lot of fun as you can imagine.

RVC: I’ll bet!

JL: Two of my clients have absolutely amazing picture books coming out on the Heartdrum list at HarperCollins, one about community with a particular shout out to people who identify as “two spirit” (Circle of Love by Monique Gray Smith, illustrated by Nicole Neidhardt) and another about a young girl coming of age and learning about how to make a ribbon skirt with her grandmother (Stitches of Tradition or Gashkigwaaso Tradition) by Marcie Rendon, illustrated by Joshua Mangeshig Pawis-Steckley.

Another one that I’m particularly excited about is Molly Golden’s debut nonfiction picture book, Becoming Real: The True Story of the Velveteen Rabbit, illustrated by Paola Escobar, forthcoming with Clarion (big shout out to Jennifer Greene for her editorial vision). While it’s a picture book biography, it’s really a story about using creativity to overcome grief and it was a perfect book to work on during the pandemic.

RVC: Sounds quite timely.

JL: I hate calling out particular client projects because I’ll always end up leaving someone out but hopefully this list shows you that when I do rep picture books, the actual genres within PB that I rep are pretty broad (although I definitely have a soft spot for nonfiction), but what I’m looking for is a meaningful theme at the heart of the piece. For example, I don’t want to see a biography that simply chronicles someone’s life. I want to see a story about hope or grief or love that uses the biography format (or whatever other format) as the vehicle to investigate that theme.

RVC: Something I’ve found to be true is that most agents get a ton of pretty good manuscripts. What helps a story stand out from a bunch of others that are totally solid and have a lot going for them but ultimately won’t make the cut?

JL: That’s a tough one to answer! The short answer is probably “narrative voice” but it’s really difficult to define what that means. When I end up passing on perfectly good projects that don’t have that special “it” factor, I usually write the author a note saying “I wasn’t drawn organically into the story through the characters and their voices; I felt like I could see the author’s hand telling me what was going on.” What I mean by that is there’s a difference between a character who just leaps off the page and into your heart and a character who is interesting, but interesting in the same way as a lot of other characters. I wish I could be more specific. And it’s also subjective, so a character that doesn’t speak to me on that level may well speak to other agents and editors. That’s why it’s almost impossible to define “voice” in a way that’s meaningful to writers! Each agent/​editor “knows it when they see it” and we’re all looking for slightly different nuances.

RVC: What’s your personal feeling on Art Notes from authors?

JL: I think they’re fine as long as they’re not overdone. Some pieces require more art notes than others to clarify what’s happening in the text. As long as the author isn’t being overly prescriptive and not giving any room for the illustrator to shine, or, conversely, the author isn’t leaving too much of the narrative to the illustrator because the author, say, doesn’t really know how the story ends (!), I think, with practice, it’s usually relatively clear where and when illustrator notes should be included.

Agents should be able to help with this, too. I’m often discussing adding illustrator notes (or removing them) with client work, so there’s no “perfect” amount of illustrator notes to include when querying agents, and an agent who likes your work should be able to discuss including or deleting illustrator notes. Same with backmatter and other supplemental information.

RVC: What DON’T you want to see in terms of picture book submissions? 

JL: I’m being very selective about picture book submissions at the moment because my list is pretty full on that front and pretty strong already. I’m not the best fit for anthropomorphized animal characters–or dragons. Actually, I’m probably not the best fit for any prince/​fairy/​dragon pieces!

RVC: What’s a favorite client picture book success story?

JL: I have one that I can’t talk about because it hasn’t been announced yet so ask me next time!

RVC: Consider us tantalized regardless! Now, what’s a favorite you CAN share?

JL: I really loved selling a beautiful picture book, Rising by award-​winning Canadian literary fiction author, Sidura Ludwig, which is being illustrated by Sophia Vincent-​Guy and published by Candlewick. Sidura is such a beautiful lyrical writer and the manuscript was so quiet and heartfelt, simply chronicling a day making Challah between a mother and daughter, but of course it was about so much more. It resonated with themes of family and community across countries and generations. It ended up being a competitive bidding situation between editors who really understood the message and felt passionately about it. At the end of the day, Mary Lee Donovan ended up editing it and she is an absolute dream for this piece. Jewish stories that aren’t about a particular religious holiday or the holocaust have been few and far between, so a simple family Challah-​baking story felt in some ways a tough nut to crack in the market, and I was so glad we found an editor—in fact more than one—who really had the most amazing vision for the piece.

RVC: That’s the secret–finding an editor with the right vision for a story. Awesome.

JL: I know you only asked for one story but I was also super-​excited about the sale of Lyn Miller-​Lachmann’s debut picture book, Ways to Play, illustrated by Gabriel Alborozo to Levine Querido. Lyn had always wanted to write a picture book and now calls herself a “triple threat” as a result of spanning the PB, MG and YA markets (and she’s also now written a chapter book as well—the Temple Grandin volume in the She Persisted series—so maybe she’s a quadruple threat). Ways to Play will be such a beautiful book dealing with children on the spectrum being called out for not playing with toys the same way as other kids; both Lyn and Gabriel are on the spectrum and it’s the perfect partnership for this piece.

RVC: Last question for this part of the interview. What would you like to brag about in terms of forthcoming client work? And/​or your own writing?

JL: All of it! Seriously, I can’t pick a project. I’m fortunate and so, so grateful that my clients have put their trust in me and shared their amazing creative work with me and supported me as the agency grew and changed and ultimately merged with the team at Tobias. If I have a brag at all, it’s that I think the market is going to see our clients’ work go from strength to strength in coming years and I can’t wait to see what the future brings for all of us.

RVC: Alrighty, Jacqui. It’s now time for the Lightning Round. Zippy questions and zappy answers, please. Are you ready?

JL: Uh, didn’t you notice the length of my previous answers?? I don’t think I can do this! HELP!!!

RVC: Favorite Crayola color (real or invented)?

JL: Memory Lane Indigo.

RVC: What always cheers you up when you think about it?

JL: My kids’ smiles.

RVC: What do you think you’re much better at than you actually are?

JL: Critiquing plays and musicals!

RVC: Guilty reading pleasure?

JL: ROMANCE!!!!

RVC: What’s the One That Got Away?

JL: Ooh, that’s a tough one. I probably can’t name her because she’s working with another agent and happily selling books I wished I’d had the opportunity to rep. (She knows who she is!!! Or does she???)

RVC: In five words or less, your picture book philosophy.

JL: Write with heart. Rinse. Repeat.

RVC: Thanks so much, Jacqui! 

JL: Thanks for having me!

Agent Interview: Natalie Lakosil (Irene Goodman Literary Agency)

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Natalie Lakosil is an agent at the Irene Goodman Literary Agency. An honors graduate of the University of San Diego, California, Natalie holds a B.A. in Literature/​Writing. For over a dozen years, she has championed and helped build the careers of numerous award-​winning, critically acclaimed, and bestselling authors. Natalie represents adult nonfiction, adult cozy mystery/​crime, female-​driven thrillers, upmarket women’s/general fiction, illustrators, and all ages (picture book, chapter book, MG, YA) of children’s literature, both fiction and nonfiction.

In terms of her agenting needs, Natalie is especially looking for:

  • BIPOC and underrepresented voices where identity isn’t the focus
  • projects with intersectionality

She’s also a “total cat person, unicorn lover, fierce female, and mother of two tiny humans.” She also admits that for a good decade, she was terrified of going back in time and screwing up her life. “I literally documented my schedule and everything I needed to do so that if my adult self ever went back in time and went into my own kid body, I’d be able to pick right up and not screw up my grades.”

Now that we’ve got a good sense of who Natalie is, let’s get to that interview and find out more about what she does!

RVC: When you were a kid, what was your relationship to reading and writing?

NL: Oh, great question. While I always wanted to be a writer, I didn’t love writing until middle school. That might because I got Cs in spelling and grammar throughout elementary school–I was really bad at capitalizing words and spelling. Because I started reading so much in middle school, I did a 180 and writing became my strongest subject.

Love came first. Perfecting and honing the skills came second.

RVC: I love the idea of turning a weakness into a strength. What books proved important in fostering that love for reading and writing?

NL: My go-​to is Ella Enchanted, though when I really started reading a ton, I was into Meg Cabot and Tamora Pierce. That’s when I fell in love with the age level I handle now as an agent. Then I moved on to romance novels.

Teresa Medeiros, Jude Deveraux, Nora Roberts, Julia Quinn–all those greats inspired me to want to do it myself, but also to help others. I wanted to represent them and help their careers, too. I still have the books that I loved the most (except for library books–checked out one a day!) so here’s a glimpse at that shelf.

RVC: What was the career goal you had when you went to UCSD to study literature and writing?

NL: I’m one of those really weird agents because I started writing at such a young age. My mom got me Jeff Herman’s annual Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents when I was thirteen and that’s how I found out what a literary agent was. I was like, “That! I want to do that!” So, I went into UCSD with this five-​year plan. I was going to graduate, move to New York, then work at an editing house–maybe even work as a copy editor for a bit, to get my feet wet and build my connections–and then I was going to become an agent and write a lot, as well.

Obviously, my five-​year plan didn’t happen. I got an internship in college at an agency. Once I actually start working in the industry, I didn’t want to be a writer anymore. I just found I couldn’t get past my own head. I’d be critiquing my own ideas and I’d say, “Oh, my goodness, I don’t know that I’d be able to do everything that writers do.” I shifted completely away from writing myself.

RVC: Is that internship what led you to your first “real” job in a literary agency? That was with Sandra Dijkstra, right?

NL: Yes. I interned there for a couple years, and then I interned at a newspaper, where I quickly found out that journalism writing wasn’t for me!

When I graduated, I thought I was going to go to grad school and get my PhD in English. I got rejected everywhere. Then I reached out to the agency where I interned and asked, “Got any openings?” They did. I got really, really lucky.

RVC: At the agency, were you working on kidlit from the start?

NL: Oh, I never thought I was going to go into handling children’s books at all. I thought I was only going to do romance novels. That’s what I was reading. That’s all I wanted to do. I liked women’s fiction, historical fiction, romance novels. When I eventually made my way up to being an agent, I was told that I was now the children’s agent at the agency. I said “Okay!” and I figured it out.

Through trial and error, I actually found I was pretty good in this space. Before long, I fell totally in love with children’s books. I just kept pushing my way into all the different genres, and I now represent everything within the children’s area. Today, it’s almost all of my list. I’m trying right now to break into more adult nonfiction, but I don’t take on romance novels at all anymore (only from existing clients).

RVC: This change to kidlit as a focus–was that still at the first agency, were you at Bradford by then?

NL: It was the first agency. The Sandra Dijkstra Literary Agency.

RVC: What was the first picture book you got to work on?

NL: It was by a client who’s still with me–Roseanne Greenfield. And to this day, I’m still trying to sell that first picture book. I’ve gone on to sell seven other books for her, but the first one we worked on together didn’t sell. It was a lyrical nonfiction texts about bioluminescence, and I still think it’s going to sell. I love it so much!

RVC: It sounds pretty cool to me, too.

NL: Roseanne helped ease me into things because she’d been previously represented by the Andrea Brown Agency–she was a talent. And she’d already published several books before we worked together. So, I actually grew a lot with her.

RVC: What are some of the lessons you learned by agenting children’s books?

NL: What I learned over the years was that you’re going to suck at it for a little bit. You have to push past that, the “I don’t know what I’m doing, and nothing is selling–why is nothing selling…WHY?” because you’re kind of figuring out your own path.

Obviously, I didn’t NOT sell anything, but I have a much stronger sell-​through rate now. Back then, I was still building connections. I learned that you have to stay flexible as an agent. Don’t be afraid to branch into something new, even though it’s going to take work. You’re going to have to do a lot of research. You’re going to have to talk to colleagues. You’re going to have a lot of trial and error and not be perfect in your style and process. That could all take years, but it’s worth it in the end. You just have to push past that learning curve.

RVC: Is it REALLY that different working at different agencies?

NL: In terms of perspectives and ideas, yes, there’s absolutely a difference at each place. And agencies absolutely are and should be thinking about different voices in the room and opening space for new agents and underrepresented voices. But it’s also an apprenticeship model, so usually the hope is that an intern or an assistant will stay and build into an agent.

As for moving around, career-​wise, I’ve grown, so I’ve had different needs. I needed a lot of support and handholding when I was new, versus now, I just need more administrative support. Moving agencies is kind of just you growing in your career. As an agent, you have to reevaluate where you’re at. Is it offering what you know you need? If you have a conversation with the team and it’s just not the right fit, you sometimes have to move.

RVC: I’ve had those same conversations with college and universities, too. I’m at my seventh one now, though I’ve been here for 13 years.

NL: I don’t know if this is still the case today, but that’s how it was back then. The idea was that you can’t be friends with other agents–they’re your competition. My next agency was the complete opposite of that. They were more, “Let’s talk about stuff, and be friends with people.” I even ended up joining a book club with other agents, including ones from other agencies. We all came to each other with what we’re facing, what was going on, and we just bounced things off of each other. I grew so quickly that way because we were all at varying levels. Collaboration is so important to growing. Everybody does things a little bit different as an agent. Every agent is going to have their own style. Even today, I do a lot of mentoring.

I’m still learning things about how different agencies operate. And I know it’s okay not to have all the answers. As long as you’ve got a support system, you’ll be fine. There’s room for all of us. We’re going to sell books, even if we have tastes that overlap. We’re making sure we’re all working in a good way which helps the industry too because editors get overwhelmed. That’s partially because some newer agents don’t have anybody to talk to. “Should I do this? Or should I do this?” they wonder. That creates problems in the pipeline for everybody.

RVC: Why is the Irene Goodman Literary Agency your forever home?

NL: The structure. The way this agency is set up, there’s no reason for me to ever leave. It’s very much like owning my own agency and running a business, yet I have the resources of an incredibly successful team with me. And compensation-​wise, it’s all about long-​term growth, which fits where I’m at. I feel like I have the best of both worlds here.

RVC: What is the hardest part about being a literary agent?

NL: The emotional roller coaster of the industry. I get rejection daily. I pour my heart and soul into projects that don’t sell. I fall in love with projects that I don’t get to work on. I get horrible news when a book is cancelled, or something bad happens and something’s in jeopardy for an author or client. There are so many things that shift daily that you have to practice self care a lot so you can manage the ups and downs.

It’s commission work, too. Not everybody works on commission, but at least for me, it means there are ups and down throughout the year. You could have a fantastic first quarter that makes your year, then maybe nothing comes in for the next couple months and you’re questioning, “Am I ever going to sell a book again?” because you’re seeing other agents doing amazing things. And you’re thinking like, “Oh, should I be doing that?” There’s a lot of comparison going on. It’s like the Facebook thing, a lot of people shouting about all their amazing things. But they don’t share the hardships, and we all experience hardships.

RVC: It’s so refreshing how honest you are on all of this. In fact, I’m going to take advantage of that and ask you a question I don’t ask people in these interviews. Brace yourself!

Whenever I talk to other writers, most of them complain about their agents at some level. What would be the thing your clients might complain about you? It’s a terrible thing to ask, I fully realize, but I’m so interested in your thoughts here.

NL: Honestly, I hope there’s nothing. I try my best. I have end-​of-​the-​year calls where I review with everybody to make sure we’re aligned vision-​wise and career-​wise, and we have clear goals for the next year. I always ask, “Is there anything else that I could be doing better for you or more for you?” I’m not afraid of hearing from my clients or having to adjust to a client’s needs.

I was a little behind in reading because I got COVID, so I didn’t work for two weeks, which set me back like two months.

RV: Sorry to hear that!

NL: It was frustrating. But I dug out!

Specific to picture book writers, because they are so prolific, it can be really frustrating for them when we have to talk about how many things we can submit at a time or how often. I’m very strategic about what we try to sell. I’m not just throwing everything out there. We’re carefully building careers.

With a debut author, I find that they want to do everything even after they sell that first book. They ask, “What else can I do? What more can I do?” It’s because the mindset hasn’t shifted yet from “I need to sell, I need to get on submission, I need to sell!” But again, we have to be strategic, and we also don’t want to damage relationships. I usually see that shift as launch approaches, and they realize, “There’s going to be so much work with editorial and launch and marketing.”

RVC: Oh yeah. That part of the process can and does take up a lot of time.

NL: I interact a lot with my clients, and they interact with each other. I have a ton of client resources on a client portal at my website where I literally just downloaded all of my years of information and workshop materials for them. I’m always available for calls and I check in a lot. Communication is pretty important to me. I need that and I need honesty from them so I can be a fierce advocate.

RVC: Let’s talk about how all that support and those client resources have translated into successes. What’s a favorite client success story?

NL: It’s a hard question. Do I have to pick just one?

RVC: We don’t have to call it your #1 favorite–just one of your many favorites. We don’t anyone to feel snubbed, right?

NL: There are different kinds of successes. When I worked with Tiffany Jackson for six years, seeing her rise from debut to bestselling author and watching her talent be recognized was just so wonderful. Though there’s immediate successes, too, where you sell an author’s debut for six figures plus, and then they continue to rise from there.

RVC: Both of those sure sound like the definition of success to me!

NL: I think there’s a a fallacy in the industry to say that success is based on one thing, because I have authors that aren’t bestsellers, but they’re consistently selling well, and they’re consistently publishing new books. To me, that’s successful. That’s a very successful career.

RVC: I agree completely. Now, some writers get writer’s block. Do you ever get agents block?

NL: Yes. With the ups and downs of working for yourself, you have to push yourself to do stuff. And there are times when I’m in a rut, you know, where I’m just not finding anything that sounds great to me. I’d like to sign someone, but nothing is really hitting it.

There are those lulls in the industry too such as right after Thanksgiving where the whole industry is wondering, “Are we on vacation yet?” That’s a challenging time because you just kind of want to be with friends and family. The rest of the industry also does, but there’s still a ton of work to do for everybody.

RVC: What do you think of the state of kidlit right now?

NL: It’s in a really exciting place. With picture books, we’re having a renaissance. Lots of picture books are selling for more than they ever did before. I’m loving the conversations that we’re all having together about how we work, what kinds of things we work on, who we’re working with in the process of the above, and really questioning everything. We need to make sure we’re not just doing things because it’s how it’s always been done. And, finally, we’re opening the door and recognizing the need for voices as diverse as the rest of the country. It can be challenging to navigate sometimes, but I’m not afraid of that challenge.

RVC: Brag time, what’s a project or two that you’re really excited about?

NL: I have a middle grade novel that releases in May called Freddie vs. the Family Curse. It’s so cute and fun. Everyone who reads it is just falls in love with the humor and the characters; it has two starred reviews already. I’m really, really excited to see that one hit the market.

I also have a debut YA coming up, called The Loophole that’s coming out in June. It’s got one of those memorable voices and while it’s fun and funny, it also just tugs at your heart and gives you all the feels. I can’t wait for people for the world to read it.

I also have a new novel from the talented Katie Henry coming soon, Gideon Green in Black and White. It’s already got some starred reviews; her writing is sharp and funny and delightful and this new one has a mystery noir edge I think readers will love. And I have to mention Juliana Brandt’s next MG page-​turner Monsters in the Mist. She tackles really tough subjects through genre metaphor, and her writing is incredible. This one explores grief and processing trauma through a haunted island (which is also just a spooky and creepy ghost story!).

RVC: Any picture book bragging?

NL: Oh, gosh, I have a lot of picture books in the works. In June, The Notebook Keeper: A Story of Kindness from the Border comes out. I read it and I wanted to cry–we sold it immediately. It’s so moving and beautiful. It’s going to affect a lot of people.

I have another picture book coming out in May that also made me want to cry. It’s called The Little House of Hope. It’s got an English and Spanish version and it’s about this house that becomes a refuge for all sorts of people coming into the country and how over the years, people come in and out as they find their footing. It’s always a place where people can safely go.

RVC: Okay, Natalie, we’re moving into the the lightning round. Fast Qs and faster As. Are you prepared?

NL: I guess?

RV: We’ll soon find out. HERE WE GO! If animals could talk, what animal would be the most annoying?

NL: Birds.

RVC: If the answer is “unicorn,” what’s the question?

NL: “What’s your soul animal?”

RVC: How do you organize your books?

NL: My client books, alphabetically. The books I read, by the order I read them in.

RVC: If I looked at your workspace, what are some of the things I’d see?

NL: A ton of books everywhere. I have a huge floor to ceiling shelving of all my client titles. And hopefully you notice all the plants in the room. I’m very big on plants. I have an enormous sign that says Carpe Diem and crystals everywhere. Hopefully it all looks organized and clean, too.

RVC: What’s a recent picture book that came out that really caught your attention?

NL: I have a four-​year-​old and a seven-​year-​old so I’m constantly buying picture books. A few recents: Perfectly Pegasus by Jessie Sima, Itty-​Bitty Kitty Corn by Shannon Hale, Take a Breath by Sujean Rim, The Year We Learned to Fly by Jacqueline Woodson.

RVC: What’s your agenting philosophy in six words or fewer?

NL: Transparency, honesty, strategy, passion, client satisfaction, and collaboration.

RVC: Thanks so much, Natalie. This was terrific!

Agent Interview: James McGowan (BookEnds Literary Agency)

On By Only Picture BooksIn Agent Interviews

The February 2022 Industry Insider Interview at OPB is with James McGowan, a literary agent at BookEnds Literary Agency. He joined the agency as an intern and worked in multiple departments. Now, as an agent, he represents an accomplished list of award-​winning writers and illustrators, focusing on “illustrated projects for young readers (board books, picture books, chapter books, and middle grade) as well as adult nonfiction and mystery/​suspense novels.”

In addition, James is a picture book author himself. His first book, Good Night, Oppy!, was published this past year. Clearly, he knows this industry inside and out!

And just because fun facts are great to know, here’s additional information about James:

  • He’s an enormous Jeopardy! fan.
  • He considers himself a professional snacker.
  • He has a deep love of science.
  • He loves a good laugh and probably provides some laughs, being fluent in sarcasm.
  • He currently lives on Staten Island, where he was born and raised.

Let’s share some links and get right to the interview!

JW: When did you discover your love for reading and writing? 

JM: In the most cliché answer: I’ve always been a reader. I can remember my mom teaching me to read using a board book (whose title I sadly cannot remember). I remember taking a book to parties and sitting in the corner, and begging to stop at bookstores. It’s something that has always been with me.

Writing came much later, after I graduated from college and listened to Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert on my commutes to and from the BookEnds office. I always had ideas, but that book made me think I can see them through.

JW: You began working at BookEnds Literary Agency in 2015 as a summer intern. How did you go about getting this internship?

JM: I applied to just about every internship program one could find in publishing, and BookEnds was one of the only two or three that replied to me. Finding an internship in this industry is all about persistence!

JW: What was the most helpful lesson you learned as an intern?

JM: Ask questions. I am by nature a question-​asker but it is crucial that every intern abandon any level of fear and just ask the question they have. There is no stupid question when you’re learning a field. Also, it makes you look engaged, interested, and people remember you better when they talk to you more.

JW: What was it about picture books that made you decide this is where you want to be?

JM: For me, it’s the combination of text and illustration. Picture books are a work of art and that’s because of the collaboration. Seeing your book come to life is a feeling no picture book author will ever get tired of.

JW: What’s your favorite part of being a literary agent?

JM: Much like above… the collaboration. I’m not sure of another job where you work this closely with creators in both a creative and strategic setting. I love having a roster of brilliant minds that I can learn from and create with.

JW: Since joining BookEnds, you have worked in various departments. How do these different experiences help you when representing your clients?

JM: This has made me a better agent, hands down. I would not trade my time as an assistant for anything. I can speak confidently in every aspect of running a literary agency, from the accounting department to contracts, taxes, subsidiary rights, social media, etc. I’ve always felt I can bring my clients a deep understanding of how the agency can and will serve them, and I’ve always appreciated that.

JW: As an agent who represents both writers and illustrators, how is the process different between the two?

JM: Oh, totally different! But… not? At the same time? I mean, authors do not have the guide that illustrators do in terms of story. They’re crafting and creating that from scratch, whereas the illustrator has the author’s roadmap (manuscript). But each of them are creating details and story arcs that the other is not. An illustrator can add a visual arc to a story that the writer never could have imagined. The process is obviously different in that one is text and one is art, but the creative process, I imagine, is quite similar.

JW: I have noticed more and more authors are getting into self-​publishing. As an agent, what do you think about that?

JM: This really depends on what the creator’s goal is. If you want to self-​publish, then you wouldn’t need an agent. If you wish to traditionally publish your book, an agent is the first step. Most publishers do not accept submissions by unagented creators so you’ll need an agent to submit, but we’re not just here to submit for you. A good agent will negotiate your offers, your contracts, manage schedules, advocate for you in terms of marketing, track payments and royalty statements, seek new opportunities for subsidiary rights, and more. All of that is not something most authors are able to do, and in my opinion is worth the commission.

JW: What do you look for when you get a story that features or covers issues involving the LGBTQ+, BIPOC, and other groups with historically lesser representation so that the story champions these groups?

JM: Overall, I’m looking for good storytelling. I, like any reader, wants to be swept away by something. I want to invest myself into the story the author or illustrator wants to tell. That is the same for any creator. When working with marginalized creators, I see my role as one of amplification. How can I assist in getting their story and experiences out there?

JW: Making connections with an agent for brand new writers, while extremely important, can be pretty intimidating. What advice would you give to a new writer on the scene with making these meaningful connections?

JM: Don’t overthink it. Agents are humans, and we all just want to connect with others.

JW: I have heard you appreciate a good laugh. Why do you feel humor is important in picture books?

JM: Humor, to me, is the most foolproof way of captivating someone’s attentions. When we’re dealing with kiddos, whose attention is sacred, humor is your best friend.

JW: With the vast number of ways humor can express itself, what do you look for in stories with humor?

JM: I’m open!

JW: What type of humor turns you off?

JM: I’d say I’m not typically a potty humor person, but if something is done inventively, it could totally work for me.

JW: One upcoming humorous book from an author you represent, Becky Scharnhorst, caught my attention, This Field Trip Stinks!, the follow-​up to My School Stinks! What elements of a picture book make it a good candidate for a sequel?

JM: Stuart (the main character) is one of my favorite picture book characters ever. In terms of what makes a good sequel for a humorous picture book, to me, it’s just that: a great focal character.

JW: Also, congratulations, as you recently had your own picture book published, Good Night, Oppy! Space books were my favorite as a kid. How did you come up with the idea for this book?

JM: Thank you! Mine, too. When the news broke about Oppy, I heard it on the radio during my commute to work. As soon as I got into the office, I was chatting with my agent about it and the story came to life from there.

JW: Finding a way to make science appealing to young readers is so important. What advantages do you see to using fictionalized characters and stories to present this material?

JM: This is a great question. It really depends on the science to me, but I think it’s a great way of hooking a younger reader. To me, Oppy was instantly loveable. By following her journey in the book, I hope readers were learning a bit more about uncrewed space travel.

JW: Was there anything about the process of having your book published that took you by surprise, having worked in the industry?

JM: Ha! No, not really. I knew what to expect. Well, maybe just the general anxiety of it all. I did not realize how much pressure one can feel when gearing up for a publication day.

JW: On Twitter, you encourage all clients to celebrate new deals at least twice, and your favorite part is hearing how clients celebrate the news. What’s been your favorite celebration story from a client?

JM: This is my favorite part. One of my clients has her go-​to coffee shop that she runs to get her favorite latte from. Some of my clients go out to dinner. One person finds a celebration that ties into their book’s subject (i.e. buying themselves a space-​themed gift for a space-​themed book).

JW: How did you celebrate the news your book was getting published?

JM: Super low key. I was TIRED. Ha! My family did get me a cake and sang happy birthday which I thought was funny. But otherwise, I just accepted the love on social media, and really just appreciated the moment for what it is, which is an incredible achievement.

JW: On social media, you’re pretty active as an agent. What are the benefits of being on social media regularly as an agent?

JM: Connection. Community. Especially as a younger agent, building your reputation as a kind person that others would want to work with, social media can be incredibly useful. I’ve always seen it as connecting with people and a place to share what I’m working on.

JW: Okay, James, it’s time for the SIX QUESTION SPEED ROUND with lightning-​fast questions and answers please! Are you ready?

JM: Of course not, but here we go…

JW: Name your favorite sitcom.

JM: You’re kidding me right now. I have lots! I have always loved Friends. Brooklyn 99 and New Girl were more recent favorites. The show I cannot shut up about right now is Abbott Elementary.

JW: As a professional snacker, name your go-​to snack and, as a daily-​double, any snacks you do not like.

JM: Goldfish. A snack I do not like…. Potato chips. I’ve always found them greasy! But I do liked baked potato chips.

JW: If you could write questions for Jeopardy!, provide the category you would create for your questions.

JM: Children’s books, of course. Or snacks!

JW: Five things we’d see if we checked out your office.

JM: A ton of books. Approximately .5 million paperclips. Post-​its everywhere. My iPad. Schweppes lemon lime seltzer.

JW: What’s a recent picture book that really got your attention?

JM: Nigel and the Moon by Antwan Eady and Gracey Zhang.

JW: What’s the most important trait you bring to the keyboard?

JM: Honesty!

JW: Thanks so much, James!

Joshua Walls is a children’s author and travel writer who isn’t afraid to fuse, challenge, or deconstruct genres in the pursuit of creating compelling stories. Currently, he lives in Sarasota, FL where he’s pursuing a BFA in Creative Writing at Ringling College of Art and Design. He’s also the co-​founder and co-​host of the Fluff It podcast.

Agent Interview: Saba Sulaiman (Talcott Notch Literary Services)

On By Only Picture BooksIn Agent Interviews

This month’s Industry Insider interview is with Saba Sulaiman, a literary agent at Talcott Notch Literary Services. While I could put all kinds of traditional bio things here, I’m going to instead offer part of her own terrific Twitter bio. “Eternally recovering from maternity leave. Probably hiding behind the crib, eating cake.” With an awesome Twitter bio like that, what more do you need to know?

We’ll give more anyway, because that’s what we do here at OPB.

Saba admits that when she’s not reading, she’s likely:

  • running after two small children,
  • secretly learning another language,
  • playing Scrabble,
  • watching a Bollywood movie,
  • or singing in the bathroom.

If you REALLY want to know the regular bio stuff, I’ll get to that in the interview itself. Speaking of that, let’s get right to it!

RVC: Rumor has it that your sister played a big role in your initial love for books.

SS: She did! She was (and remains) a big reader and there’s no way I would’ve gotten into reading at all if it weren’t for how much she influenced me (read: how obsessed I was with everything she did) when we were young. She’d probably argue that there’s very little that’s original about me, to be honest, but isn’t that true for everyone?

RVC: That sure can feel like the case from time to time! Now, from the start, you were culturally displaced. How did that affect your reading interests and your relationship to language?

SS: Until I came to the US for college, I spent my whole life being expected to know a language I didn’t know well enough, and was then ridiculed for not being fluent enough. My petulant (and understandable, in retrospect) reaction to it was to make sure my English (the only language I felt confident speaking) was better than anyone else’s, and I think reading a lot helped with that. And then, of course, because my life got so much easier in the US when language wasn’t a barrier anymore, I decided to complicate it further and start learning three more languages in college.

RVC: Wow.

SS: I know.

RVC: Were your graduate studies in Persian literature at the University of Chicago a path toward your future publishing career, or were you still thinking of other career options?

SS: You know what they say: everything in your past plays a role in how things turn out in the future. I wasn’t thinking about publishing at all when I began graduate school—in fact, I was fairly sure I’d purse a Ph.D. and a career in academia. But my experience there definitely informed the kinds of books I tend to gravitate towards, and how I think about, read, and evaluate writing.

RVC: The next step in your journey took you to Sourcebooks as an editorial intern. Their home base is in Naperville, Illinois, right? What kinds of things did they have you doing there?

SS: I was actually at one of their satellite offices in Milford, CT, where their romance imprint is run. It was an incredible experience, truly—they had me write back cover copy my first day there, if that’s any indication of how happy they were to throw me into the deep end. I read submissions and wrote reports on them, attended acquisitions meetings, maintained their various author and comp title databases, and assisted the editors there with anything they needed help with. It was a really comprehensive and wonderful introduction to publishing, and I had a blast.

RVC: What was the most valuable lesson you learned while at Sourcebooks?

SS: I think it’s a combination of a few things: that working with good people is a highly underrated and very necessary aspect of enjoying your work; that supporting and advocating for people looks very different depending on the person; and that there is actually very little reading involved in the work we do (at least during office hours, alas), but that it’s absolutely essential not to lose sight of how important it is to keep in touch with what’s being published so we can best help our authors thrive.

RVC: Let’s tackled a super-​basic issue. Why is agenting the right fit for you?

SS: I get to work very closely with creative professionals and help them achieve their goals without having to take on the actual work and stress of creating art, plus I’m surrounded by people who inspire me and I get to read a lot and call it market research—what’s there not to love? I’m also a bit of a Mother Hen, and agenting allows me to channel my protective instincts in a pretty satisfying way.

RVC: You say that being an author today is an entrepreneurial enterprise. What do you mean by that? 

SS: Since publishers can’t support all the authors they publish with equal amounts of fervor when it comes to marketing and publicity, authors are expected to participate as much as they can in doing outreach, finding and connecting with their audience via libraries, conferences, and social media, and making promotional material that can aid in increasing their books’ visibility and sales. It requires time, energy, and a lot of strategy development and implementation for each author to figure out what works for them, which is why it’s much more of an entrepreneurial role than it used to be, say, fifty years ago.

RVC: Do picture book authors and illustrators have to do as much of this PR work as writers for a MG, YA, or adult audience?

SS: I think the nature of the work required is different but the amount is comparable. PB writers may not have to do a lot in terms of being personally active on social media in order to connect with their audience, but they often have to focus more on the school and library market–being available for story times, both virtual and in real life at bookstores and libraries (where safety permits), presenting their books to students at schools via classroom visits, etc. All authors want their books to find more readers–the process is just different for PB writers.

RVC: I’ve heard you say that you think every author should have an agent. Care to explain that a bit more? Especially as to how it might pertain to self-​published authors?

SS: Well, first of all, I will admit that I’m clearly biased since I am an agent, but I do think having someone in your corner whose entire job is to support and advocate for you, find opportunities for you to improve your craft and publish widely, review your contracts and advise you on how you manage your career overall–especially in an industry as frustratingly esoteric as publishing–is very useful. Authors can certainly manage their careers without agents, especially if they’re fairly certain they want to self-​publish and continue to do so, but it requires doing a lot of research that is hard to access without the help of a professional who has had the experience working in this space, as well as having a tremendous amount of energy—energy that I think would be better served being channeled into writing their manuscripts.

Finding a good agent isn’t just a means to an end, it’s a long-​term investment in your career, and a wise decision, I believe.

RVC: What was the first picture book you sold? What made you want to represent it?

SS: The first PB I sold was Muslim Girls Rise by my client Saira Mir (illustrated by Aaliya Jaleel). I fell completely in love with it because it was written so beautifully and with such clarity and an earnest desire to share these exceptional women’s voices. Also as a Muslim woman myself, I found that even I hadn’t heard of a majority of these women before I read this submission, so I knew I had to do my part to help make their inspiring stories available to read for kids all over the world.

RVC: I’ve got a copy of that one–it’s a worthy book, indeed. Now, let’s throw a bone to the writers out there. What do you want to see out of submissions? What are some must-​haves and turn offs?

SS: In picture books, I’m drawn most to stories with a nuanced emotional takeaway, fun wordplay, notes of whimsy, textual economy, and memorable characters. I love smart, unexpected narratives where authors are experimenting structurally; I love funny books, both the sweet and soft kind and the wry, dry kind; I love layered storytelling with subtextual richness that can provide a launchpad for readers to start a conversation; and I love idiosyncratic narratives that take mundane processes and make them seem utterly delightful. I also represent non-​fiction, and am particularly interested in creative storytelling with a STEM component, biographies of lesser-​known trailblazers who have made a significant impact in their fields, stories with environmental themes, and creative nonfiction that almost feels like it could be shelved in the fiction section. I’m also always especially excited when I receive submissions from BIPOC creators, queer creators, disabled creators, immigrant creators, and creators who are writing stories of joy and celebration at the intersection of these identities.

RVC: Is there anything you don’t want to see?

SS: I don’t usually find stories that have a very heavy moral or “lesson” component very appealing.

RVC: Picture book trends. Should writers pay attention to them? 

SS: Writers should absolutely pay attention to trends–knowing what kinds of stories the market is responding to at any given point is important because books aren’t published in a vacuum. Writers can (and should feel free to) choose not to respond to or write to these trends, but I do think they should know what kinds of books are selling if they’re seriously pursuing publication.

RVC: How do you describe your agenting style?

SS: Forthright, honest, encouraging, collaborative, and flexible.

RVC: One final question for this part of the interview, Saba. What’s are some picture-​book projects that you’d like to brag about?

SS: Ooh yes, thank you for the opportunity! This year a picture book very dear to my heart called Laxmi’s Mooch by my client Shelly Anand (and illustrated by Nabi H. Ali) was published–it’s a really sweet, joyful story that celebrates body hair and inspires kids to be confident about who they are—it was featured on the Today Show which was really thrilling!

And then next year, I have three PBs forthcoming: The Meaning of Pride by Rosiee Thor (illustrated by Sam Kirk), Zahra’s Blessing by Shirin Shamsi (illustrated by Manal Mirza), and If You’re a Kid Like Gavin by Kyle Lukoff and Gavin Grimm (illustrated by J. Yang), all of which I’m very excited about!

RVC: Alrighty. It’s now time to double the points, double the speed, and double the overall goodness. Welcome to…THE LIGHTNING ROUND! Are you ready? 

SS: Go for it!

RVC: Biggest time waster?

SS: Someone sent me a few funny Instagram Reels and I made the mistake of going back to browse for more–don’t get sucked in, it’s a trap!!! Even more so than TikTok, I think, because of how much shorter the videos are and how easy it can be to tell yourself you’ll only watch one more…

RVC: If we overheard you singing in the shower (we get it—the acoustics are great!), you’d be belting out…

SS: It varies a lot depending on my mood but “I Want More” from The Little Mermaid is definitely a repeat offender and has been since I was a kid–both my mom and my husband can definitely attest to that.

RVC: A favorite autocorrect misadventure?

SS: I once praised a client for how fantastic and transportive their decryptions are. That was fun!

RVC: A recent picture book that really impressed you?

SS: Ooh, there are so many but I’ll name the most recent one–it’s a picture book biography coming out in January 2022 from HarperCollins called When the Schools Shut Down by Yolanda Gladden and Dr. Tamara Pizzoli, and illustrated by Keisha Morris. It’s got such beautiful, contemplative, rich, nuanced, and rousing storytelling, such gorgeous, warm illustrations, and it’s such an expansive story told with intimate, emotionally exacting detailing–I just love it. Both the author and illustrator really managed to convey a sense of Yolanda Gladden’s soul, her family, and her nurturing community, which is so difficult to do with a PB biography.

RVC: Three must-​haves in a picture book manuscript?

SS: Voice, kid-​appeal, and a sense of sincerity.

RVC: Best moment in your agenting career (so far)?

SS: Probably the day I found out one of my clients got longlisted for the National Book Award–I was actually in the middle of what’s been one of my best runs to date, so it was a great personal moment as well!

RVC: Thanks for joining us here at OPB, Saba. Best of luck with everything!

SS: Thanks for having me, Ryan!

Agent Interview: Elizabeth Bennett (Transatlantic Agency)

On By Only Picture BooksIn Agent Interviews

This month’s Industry Insider interview is with Elizabeth Bennett, a Senior Literary Agent and Partner at Transatlantic Agency. She’s spent her entire career in the children’s publishing industry, having worked in marketing, product development, and editorial at such companies as Scholastic, Reader’s Digest, and Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. One especially cool thing she did at HMH was establish an IP program that launched several middle grade series, including The Next Best Junior Chef, Survivor Diaries, and Junior Ninja Champion.

Let’s get right to the interview to find out more about Elizabeth and her career!

Her agency’s website

Her Twitter

Her Instagram

RVC: At what point did you first fall in love with books?

EB: When I was in third grade I read the All of a Kind Family series by Sydney Taylor. I loved them so much that I wrote to the author and asked if she was planning on writing more. She wrote back (SHE WROTE BACK!!!) telling me she hoped to some day write more books in the series (spoiler, she did…) and suggested another book she had written. I’m pretty certain that hearing from the author of a beloved book series cemented my love of reading.

RVC: I had the same kind of thrill with Piers Anthony when I wrote him a handscrawled letter about his bestselling Xanth series. He wrote back to me, too! Crazy, right?

When did you go from being an avid reader to knowing books would be your career?

EB: I should have known that a career in children’s books was the right path for me (my favorite course in college was a children’s literature), but I actually stumbled upon it. I wanted to work in children’s television, but back in the 80s there weren’t as many opportunities in kids TV, and the job market was tight all around. Fresh out of graduate school, with a degree in communications, I took the first job I could find–a marketing position at Scholastic. I changed lanes throughout my career, but from that point on, I stayed on the publishing road.

RVC: What type of training did you have along the way to prepare you for success in the publishing industry?

EB: The knowledge base I have from a child study major in college and a communications degree have certainly helped, but in publishing, much of the training happens organically. You listen, you question, you take chances, you grow…

RVC: You spent a good bit of time on the editing side of things. What are some of the key lessons you learned that help you in your work as an agent?

EB: I know that some successful agents don’t have experience on the editorial side and I’m flummoxed by (and slightly in awe of) them. For me, the ability to help my clients finesse their manuscripts before they go out on submission has been key. Because of the volume of my work, I can’t do the kind of line edits that I did as an editor (nor is that my strength), but I know how to make a good manuscript better, getting it ready for submission–while leaving room for the acquiring editor to take it on and make it really sing.

RVC: Scholastic is kind of the 800-​pound gorilla in the kidlit world. What was it like working for them?

EB: So many of us in the industry cut our teeth at Scholastic. When I started there, some of the big brands it is known for were just being launched–Goosebumps, The Babysitters Club, The Magic School Bus. It was an incredibly exciting time to be in publishing and Scholastic was small enough then that we all felt like we were a part of it. To this day, I’m still close to many of the people I worked with there–it truly was a great training ground.

RVC: I’m sure OPB readers will want to know about franchise publishing—you worked on Doc McStuffins, Hello Kitty, and Clifford, among others. What’s different about working with a franchise? 

EB: I’ve worked on brands both as an editor and writer–brands from Scholastic, Disney, Nickelodeon, Marvel, and more. With a franchise, you have to keep the brand bible in mind–the world has already been created and there are boundaries that you have to keep inside of, but you still have the opportunity to tell stories. Franchise publishing is a great entry point for many readers, so I’m a big fan.

RVC: You’ve also worked with some big-​time classics at HMH (Curious George, Little Blue Truck, and The Little Prince). What was the best thing about working with those?

EB: It’s really fun to take a classic character and find a new story to tell or a new format to try. Curious George can celebrate Ramadan. Little Blue Truck can find baby animals on a farm. Toddlers can be introduced to The Little Prince in a series of board books.

RVC: You’ve been at your current agency for some time now. Why is Transatlantic Agency a good fit? What do they do especially well?

EB: We are lean and nimble. Small enough for each of the agents to have autonomy, but established enough to have the systems we need to run our businesses and support our clients. We each are independent contractors, but we come together as an agency to share thoughts, experience, and knowledge. I also love that we have agents and clients on both sides of the Canada/​US border–we can offer our clients a broader market and network.

RVC: Recently, you were made a Partner at the agency. Congrats on that! What does that mean for you? Do your day-​to-​day duties change?

EB: I’ll be honest, the appointment was more of an honor than a promotion. It doesn’t change my day-​to-​day responsibilities. But it does mean that I have more of a stake and interest in the operations of the agency. And it was lovely to be recognized for my work considering that I’m relatively new to agenting.

RVC: You’ve been involved with a lot of graphic novels, so you’re the ideal person to ask this question. More and more, I see publishers making graphic novels for kids. What’s the difference between those and picture books?

EB: Well, the easiest answer is that picture books are for young children–ages 2–5 or so–while graphic novels are for readers of all ages and, as of late, can be found across all genres. But it’s more than that. With a graphic novel, readers are drawn into the storytelling in a way that they may not be with a more traditional text. The pacing and emphasis on action can be captivating and a real bonus for more reluctant readers. Inference comes into play. Using visual cues, readers make connections they may not have to make when storytelling is done through text alone. They build comprehension and critical thinking skills.

Let’s just say, I’m a big fan!

RVC: Me, too! I love them.

Let’s talk submissions. What’s one thing you see too often in picture book manuscripts that ultimately earns a pass from you?

EB: I’m open to accepting a rhyming picture book text, but I see too much bad rhyme. Writing in rhyme is easy–doing it well is really, really hard. That’s why many agents and editors won’t even look at a text that’s written in rhyme.

RVC: You’re busy enough these days that you’re only accepting submissions from non-​clients by referral only. I don’t ask this question enough—what’s an effective way to get a referral without being pushy, aggressive, or stalkery?

EB: I will always look at a submission that comes through a client of mine or a colleague. So, the best way to get a referral is through relationships.

  • Do you have a peer in a critique group who is agented?
  • Did you meet an editor at a conference?
  • Did you go to school with someone in the business?

But, I’ll add that if an agent is closed to submissions, it’s usually because they truly aren’t looking to grow their list. Better to focus on agents who are actively acquiring–your chances are just that much better of getting an offer.

RVC: That last point is really astute. OPB readers, take heed!

Now, I often hear that it’s important for early career authors to be active on social media.

EB: Some of my clients are very active on social media – others not so much. And I always tell them that it’s up to them. Social media is a great way to grow a platform, to make connections, to self-​promote. But I don’t want anyone to think they have to be active on social media–unless of course fame and recognition is part of their pitch (i.e. a celebrity book).

RVC: Brag time. What’s a book project or two you’re working on that you’re really excited about? 

EB: Ack–so many. But I’ll mention a few.

Kayla Miller, the creator of the NYT best-​selling graphic novel Click series, has collaborated with writer Jeffrey Camino and illustrator Kristina Luu on Besties–a spin-​off series which is launching in October. It’s exciting to see this franchise grow.

Damian Alexander’s Other Boys, a touching and poignant graphic memoir about transcending trauma and embracing self, is receiving a lot of (deserving) buzz, and Debbie Dadey is authoring a picture book memoir about Kati Kariko, the woman who’s mRNA research led to the development of the COVID vaccine. It’s the kind of story we need right now.

RVC: Okay, Elizabeth. It’s time for the Speed Round! ARE YOU READY?!?

EB: Ready!

RVC: Favorite place to get a terrific slice of pizza?

EB: I love pizza, but as a New Englander, I’m going to go lobster roll here–Alive and Kickin’ Lobsters in Cambridge is my hands-​down favorite.

RVC: A surprising song that’s on your current playlist?

EB: Shameless plug for my daughter’s boyfriend, Carson McKee. Any song by his group, The Other Favorites–everyone I recommend their music to becomes a fan.

RVC: If your life were a Hollywood movie, which actress would play the role of you?

EB: How about Annette Bening–Annette Bening in An American President…

RVC: What’s the One That Got Away?

EB: I won’t mention any names but there was a YA rom-​com that I really should have taken on–great title, great concept. It’s already been acquired and has a movie deal. I really regret letting that one slip away…

RVC: A recent picture book that really got your attention? 

EB: The Day the Crayons Quit is a recent favorite – so clever!

RVC: Five words that describe your picture book philosophy.

EB: I can do it in four: Never seen this before.

RVC: Thanks so much, Elizabeth. It was great getting to know you and your work better, and congrats on making Partner at the agency!